THE INTERVIEW
NPA’s ID head Andrea Johnson on the failed Gupta extradition — ‘We were blindsided when we got the response’
‘I don’t know if we’ll ever truly know where they were incarcerated and if they were incarcerated,’ Investigating Directorate head Andrea Johnson said in an e.tv interview aired on Tuesday.
The National Prosecuting Authority’s (NPA’s) team of investigators and prosecutors were never granted access to the Guptas in the UAE, despite requests to see where the brothers were allegedly being imprisoned, the NPA Investigating Directorate (ID) head, advocate Andrea Johnson, said in an interview with e.tv aired on Tuesday.
“They were not allowed access to the Guptas — not the investigation or the prosecution team were allowed to engage or to see where they were,” Johnson told e.tv’s Annika Larsen.
“We worked on good faith. The UAE said they were incarcerated, and since we have nothing to prove the opposite, that’s what we believe,” Johnson continued.
There is a chance that Gupta brothers Atul and Rajesh were never in custody in the UAE, quipped Larsen. The brothers were reportedly arrested in Dubai in June 2022, but South African authorities were never even provided with their mugshots as confirmation of their incarceration, as was previously revealed in responses from Justice Minister Ronald Lamola to parliamentary questions from the DA.
“Your guess is as good as mine, and that guess is as good as many around the world. And I don’t know if we’ll ever truly know where they were incarcerated and if they were incarcerated,” said Johnson.
Crucially, e.tv’s interview with Johnson was conducted on 24 April. This means it took place after the R24.9-million Nulane Investments case went bust in the Bloemfontein High Court on 21 April, and following news of the failed Gupta extradition earlier that month.
In the aftermath of these blows for the NPA’s ID, Larsen asked Johnson how she was feeling.
“I’m sure after recent happenings — which you’ll probably go into some detail on — people would like me to leave office. Where I am currently, I am really satisfied that I am in the right place doing the right thing,” she replied.
Johnson was appointed as the new head of the ID in March last year, following the resignation of her predecessor Hermione Cronje.
Read more in Daily Maverick: Ramaphosa appoints state prosecutor Andrea Johnson as new head of NPA Investigating Directorate
The UAE rejected South Africa’s bid to extradite Atul and Rajesh Gupta on 13 February this year. South African authorities were only notified of this development after receiving a note verbale (diplomatic communication) from the UAE on 6 April.
In response to a question from Larsen on whether mistakes were made by the NPA or the Department of Justice (DoJ) in regard to the failed request to extradite the brothers from the UAE, Johnson told her: “By the NPA? By the DoJ? No.”
The NPA knew that bringing the Guptas to face justice in South Africa was an important matter, so it also had an outside counsel on appointment assisting it in the matter, said Johnson.
‘We sent over a team’
“We realised it would actually be collegial to reach out to our UAE counterparts just to find out if we had dotted all the i’s and crossed all the t’s,” said Johnson. “So we sent over a team of investigators and prosecutors and an extradition expert that was in the NPA to the UAE, and they met with the judge — the judge who knows what is required in terms of their central authority.”
Johnson said the judge went through all of the NPA’s papers and indicated where the NPA needed to tweak things — “there were suggestions about maybe the amendment of a charge or two”.
After the team returned, the NPA made all the necessary amendments according to the recommendations and sent its papers off — through the DoJ as the central authority — all on time, she said. South Africa’s extradition request for the Guptas was submitted on 25 July 2022.
Johnson insisted that South African authorities tried to engage with the UAE, but the UAE was “not forthcoming” with information unless prompted.
“Where are we? What is going on? What do we need to do? Are our papers in order? We’ve done all of that. We haven’t heard from them about anything being amiss,” she said.
Then, “about a month or six weeks after the papers were filed”, the UAE asked her to authenticate the Arabic version. In response to this request, she stated she does not read, write or speak Arabic, but believed that the translation was correct.
“That was all they asked… There were no other engagements, and we tried to follow up to find out what was taking so long,” said Johnson.
“We were blindsided when we got the response.”
Arrest warrants
Johnson told Larsen she was aware that many people had concerns about the warrant submitted as part of SA’s extradition request.
In a press conference on 7 April, Justice Minister Lamola said two reasons were given for the Dubai court’s decision to deny the extradition request: the first was that the money laundering charge for which South Africa sought the Guptas’ extradition was also an offence in that country and that they could therefore be prosecuted in the UAE.
The second related to the validity of an arrest warrant submitted as part of South Africa’s extradition request. On Tuesday, Johnson clarified why the NPA had included cancelled warrants in the submission:
“When the team went to the UAE, the UAE indicated that they don’t deal with exchange control contraventions, and therefore advised that it would be best to remove that contravention.”
She explained that you cannot extradite someone for a crime that is not a crime in the non-requesting state.
“The initial warrants captured all of the charges — the exchange control regulations would have been one of them. So when we came back [from the UAE] and we made the necessary amendments — not just to the papers but to the indictment — we had to get new warrants of arrest leaving out the exchange control regulations.”
She said when the NPA sent the papers to the UAE central authority it sent the cancelled warrant, “to show that we had done what was requested, and that the new warrants in fact captured the charges as per the new indictment and as per the discussions”.
Nothing was flagged by the UAE central authority, said Johnson.
Read more in Daily Maverick: Dubai prosecutors confirmed in writing that the Gupta extradition documents were in order
And the NPA was “taken aback” when the “excuse of a technicality over the warrants was raised”, she said. The NPA was waiting to get comprehensive feedback from the UAE on what that technicality meant, said Johnson, and was still awaiting this feedback as of 24 April.
When the note verbale was eventually received on 6 April, weeks after the extradition hearing had been concluded and without an explanation, it appeared to be in bad faith on the part of the UAE.
“Because we all know that these matters are time-sensitive, as does the UAE, and so timeously informing us would’ve been the best thing to do, and that wasn’t the case. And so one has to wonder why not,” said Johnson.
“The decision is really mind-boggling. But even more confounding to that issue is why were we not told in time.”
Nulane Investments trial
The NPA’s first State Capture trial came to an embarrassing end in the Bloemfontein High Court on 21 April, when the judge granted a discharge to seven of the accused in the R24.9-million Nulane Investments matter. While the NPA has since filed an application for leave to appeal against the judgment, the botched case served as another blow in South Africa’s mission to bring the Guptas back to South Africa.
The Nulane Investments case was among the matters already enrolled when Johnson came to the NPA’s ID. Commenting on acting Judge Nompumelelo Gusha’s ruling in the Nulane case, Johnson said she believed the judgment to be “rather scathing.”
“The judge was very open about all the misgivings she had about how the investigation was conducted.”
It was clear, Larsen said, that the Nulane case wasn’t well investigated. She asked Johnson at what point she could have withdrawn the case.
“Much of what came out, came out during the trial. There was nothing before that. That’s the god’s honest truth,” replied Johnson.
“When the prosecutors were preparing for court we did have engagements. They didn’t have any concerns, neither did I, because it was the same team that had been dealing with the matter from the time that my predecessor was there.”
Because of this, Johnson said she had no cause to reconsider the matter. “There wasn’t anything glaring… It’s only as the trial started that one realised, ‘Oops, we do have a challenge and we do have investigative shortcomings’.”
She said she “would’ve had no qualms” about considering withdrawing the case if she knew about “the alleged glaring shortcomings in the investigation”. DM
Become an Insider
If anything, it shows that our standing in the world has diminished to being absolute minnows. We are dismissed as being of no consequence and have zero gravitas or goodwill. Who takes us seriously? Putin – using us in his deranged, evil and warped mind and machinations. This would never have happened if the abominable anc had continued in the Mandela spirit and word – instead we have become a virtual failed state, a banana republic and a laughing stock in the world. Even in Africa, we are deemed as xenophobic, patronising and arrogant. This vile, hypocritical, corrupt, criminal and inept anc government inherited a country that worked – all they had to do was elevate it for all its citizens, not just for their elite and cadres. We even roll out the red carpet for the ruler of the UAE instead of standing our ground like any self-respecting country would have done after being treated as scum. Of course, if the US or any EU country had done the same, the hysterical shrieks/shrills and condemnation would be in overdrive. As can be seen by this article, we have been shown the middle finger but our government is too stupid to realise it. Instead they harp on about the investment such a visit brings. Such false, idiotic and arrogant pride!
Very well put! I agree.
Yeah, well said Sergio. Very accurate characterisation. So shameful and pathetic.
Agree 100%. In 1994, we had the world in awe of what can be achieved by great leaders. We’ve since been degraded into a backwater state with corrupt politicians, socialist revolutionist, fascist ideologies, and flip-floppers (you know who you are!) who by the accounts of their actions don’t give a damn about South Africa or its citizens. It’s about money, power, their fat egos (including the super-rich fat cats behind it all – and you know who you are too! You’ve been let out of your cages by fools and clowns). We were a respected nation. Now SA is there for the taking by communists and dictators. Well done, ANC!!
A good epitaph for South Africa I think:
We were blindsided.
Ms Johnson, the NPA and DoJ are incompetent – relying on one judge, not having the translation in Arabic checked. We have an embassy in the UAE, at enormous cost to the taxpayer, it is their duty to be the eyes and ears of the SA state and government on the ground – clearly they are a waste of money.
Failure to ensure that the papers in the Nulane case were watertight is glaring incompetence.
No excuses.
The UAE is a delinquent state, a haven for the corrupt, one suspects that they are in cahoots with the ANC.
Of course they are. They need them to exist.
When you put various elements of this murky affair together, it is hard not to conclude the NPA was played not only by the UAE but by our own government too. The powers that be, on either side, have zero interest in allowing the Guptas to expose the magnitude of corrupt networks they enriched and corrupted over two decades. The UAE, like Switzerland before it, has built a serious chunk of its wealth by becoming a giant washing machine for corrupt dealings all over the world. There was never going to be an extradition. The fact that the Guptas have been able to purchase Vanuatu citizenship should tell us everything we need to know. A hungry homeless person will be prosecuted if he gets caught stealing bread, but hijack an entire country, purchase an entire political class, and you’ll be just fine. “Justice” is for dreamers.
And while poor Lamola and the NPA are probably genuinely angry aggrieved, our government has pointedly refused to register the slightest displeasure with the UAE and instead, we are hosting their head of state and his huge entourage in yet more opaque circumstances. And us citizens are so battered by the multiple crises the country is dealing with that we fail to muster the energy to be outraged.
“poor Lamola” ???? He is as happy as Larry and did his ANC job perfectly.
Not sure about Lamola being aggrieved. Agree whole heartedly with everything else.
No poor Lamola! Anything, but….
“The NPA knew that bringing the Guptas to face justice in South Africa was an important matter, so it also had an outside counsel on appointment assisting it in the matter, said Johnson.”
Why NPA did not engage a private Senior Counsel for the Nulane matter??
I’m sorry. You end up in court BEFORE you realise you do have a “challenge” and you STILL see fit to state that you feel you are in the right place at the right time doing the right thing? That might be true if you were an ostrich with it’s head up it’s own butt, or o
If your immediate future involves a cadre parachute deployment but under any other circumstance if there was a shred of integrity the ink would already be dry on your resignation madam. You are clearly out of your depth.
Johnson said she had no cause to reconsider the matter. “There wasn’t anything glaring… ” Except, well, legally admissable evidence?
Dubai the money laundering capital of the world, couple of brown envelopes, no problem.
This once again shows gross incompetence on the part of the NPA, they need Glynnis back…
Someone got money to keep Atul and his tribe “in power” Gupta’s have more power than the governments of both countries – The ANC has a level of moral integrity of such standing that it wouldn’t have to lift its head off the ground to kiss a rat’s arse
We’re the ANC ever going to allow the Guptas back? They would have implicated dozens of ANC cadres in the money laundering and corruption enacted while they were here.
Our prosecuting authority clearly has challenges. Hermione Cronje faced a brick wall and bailed out (or was she pushed?). Andrea Johnson has a horrible job – good luck to her. The UAE is a criminal state so no surprises about the outcome of the Gupta extradition case.
There are “ none so blind as those that will not see!”
Central to being a good attorney is NOT to be blind sided! Due diligence and checking EVERYTHING from every angle is a minimum requirement surely. Ms Johnson’s feeble explanation does not inspire confidence. As for the UAE, Madame Naledi Pandor has just received an increase in a billions of rand budget to protect the country’s interest overseas – so what happened in this instance? Another fail.