MIDDLE EAST CRISIS
Pandor says Israel is ignoring the ICJ order to stop killings in Gaza
Naledi Pandor says it’s now up to the international community to take action on the International Court of Justice order against Israel.
The South African government says Israel is ignoring the order of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) to prevent genocide in Gaza. Pretoria has urged the international community to take action to stop it.
South Africa had done what it could to stop the killing in Gaza by referring Israel to the ICJ and it was now up to others to take up the cause, International Relations and Cooperation Minister Naledi Pandor said at a press conference on Wednesday, 31 January.
Pandor suggested that the UN Security Council could be reformed to give it the power to enforce peace and not just monitor peace agreements. (Photo: Gallo Images / Lefty Shivambu)
“I do believe the rulings of the court have been ignored by Israel. Hundreds of people have been killed in the past three or four days. And clearly Israel believes it has licence to do as it wishes. So the world has to reflect … what do we do to stop such acts occurring not just with Israel but any party in the world?” Pandor said.
She said Israel’s recent attacks on hospitals in particular “totally go against the grain of the ICJ ruling and the provisions of the Genocide Convention”.
Pandor suggested that one remedy would be for the UN Security Council to be reformed to give it the power to enforce peace and not just monitor peace agreements.
“I believe South Africa has done what it can, and now the global community must answer the question: do these conventions mean anything? Or do we now have a world in which there is open licence where you can act as you will against any vulnerable group?”
Mobilising support
Nonetheless, South Africa would continue to mobilise international support for Palestine aimed at protecting its people, but particularly at trying to ensure negotiations for a two-state solution, she said.
She noted that the ICJ had ordered Israel to report back to the court in a month on its implementation of the court orders (such as preventing genocide in Gaza and ensuring basic services and humanitarian aid). South Africa would wait to see what Israel reported and then submit its own commentary “of what we have seen since the ICJ ruling”.
Pandor also suggested that Israel’s accusation that 12 staff members of the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) had participated in the 7 October Hamas attacks inside Israel was part of a deliberate campaign of “negative actions against the people of Palestine … Every day there’ll be a different intervention which seeks to undermine … our conviction that genocide is under way.”
Pandor denied allegations that Hamas had financed South Africa’s legal challenge to Israel at the ICJ. (Photo: Katlholo Maifadi / Dirco)
Pandor said South Africa would mobilise support from its own resources and from other countries, especially in the Global South, to compensate UNRWA for the suspension of support from some Western countries because of the accusation.
Pandor called these suspensions “collective punishment”, noting that UNRWA had suspended the accused staffers and was investigating the allegations.
From ICJ to ICC
She also revealed that while she was in The Hague for the ICJ case, she had also met International Criminal Court (ICC) president Piotr Hofmański and prosecutor Karim Khan “to alert them of our concern about the slow pace of action on matters we referred to them as urgent”.
She was referring to South Africa joining several other states in referring the situation in Palestine to the ICC in November last year.
She said the prosecutor assured them that the matter was in hand and was being looked at by his office.
But Pandor said she didn’t think the prosecutor had answered her sufficiently on her question on “why he was able to issue an arrest warrant for Mr Putin and was unable to do so for the prime minister of Israel. He couldn’t answer and did not answer that question.”
However, she said, he indicated that the investigations were still under way and until they were concluded, he couldn’t answer.
Pandor also denied allegations in the public domain that Hamas had financed South Africa’s legal challenge to Israel at the ICJ. She said she hadn’t checked with the ANC on whether Iran was providing it with finance, as has also been rumoured.
Read more on Daily Maverick: Fact Check — Did Iran fund South Africa’s approach to the ICJ over Israel?
She said she had not spoken to Hamas since her phone call with the leader Ismail Haniyeh last October which had attracted so much criticism. But she said that she had spoken to some colleagues who had direct contact with Hamas “who continue to discuss the release of hostages – but a ceasefire is critical for that to happen”.
Pandor brushed off the decisions by the Israeli airline El Al to suspend flights to South Africa and of some Israeli supermarkets to stop buying South African fruit, because of South Africa’s ICJ action. She said she didn’t think El Al provided a major airline service to SA anyway.
South Africa had to protect its national interest. “But the concern about the national interest must not make us a partner to atrocity,” she said.
Pandor said South Africa would look to other countries, especially in the Gulf and Asia, to replace the market lost in Israel. This should include growing its halaal food exports.
Read more in Daily Maverick: Diplomatic fallout of ICJ ruling on Israel could put SA’s Agoa renewal at risk
SA case ‘no longer meritless’
On the next steps in the ICJ case, Pandor said South Africa expected other countries to submit papers formally to the ICJ intervening on South Africa’s side as friends of the court when it deliberated on the substantial question of whether Israel had committed genocide in Gaza.
She said some countries had confirmed to her that they would intervene, but she didn’t want to name them until they made the announcement themselves.
Pandor and director-general of the Department of International Relations and Cooperation Zane Dangor in Pretoria on 31 January 2024. Photos: Katlholo Maifadi / Dirco)
Zane Dangor, director-general of the Department of International Relations and Cooperation, said that over the next couple of days, the registrar of the ICJ would call in the South African and Israeli lawyers to outline the time frame for filing papers on the merits of the case.
He said South Africa hoped that it would take no more than six months for both sides to file those papers, but that it was possible it might take only three months. These would just be the first steps in a very long process.
Read more in Daily Maverick: Israel-Palestine War
Pandor noted that despite the US’s prior rejection of South Africa’s case against the ICJ as “baseless” and “without merit”, the US had said after the ICJ ruling that the ruling reflected positions expressed by President Joe Biden on a ceasefire. “So it was no longer meritless,” Pandor said.
She said that when she spoke to Secretary of State Antony Blinken the day before the ICJ ruling, “he did re-emphasise their strong belief that a ceasefire is necessary. But to them, it’s a temporary ceasefire for humanitarian purposes, not a permanent end.
“He also stressed that America will work hard at the two-state solution.”
On the state of diplomatic relations with Israel, Pandor said the Cabinet still had to reflect upon the final closure of the embassy in Israel following a parliamentary resolution, which the ANC supported last year, that the government should sever relations with Israel.
She recalled that South Africa had withdrawn its ambassador from Israel (in 2018) and then, after the killing of thousands of people in Gaza, had closed the embassy “until we have visible signs that action is being taken towards ending the killings”. DM
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If you and our government had an ounce of credibility, one might pay more attention to your perspective.
Unfortunately this simply feels like you are trying desperately to distract our South African people from our government’s abject failings at home, and because this is an election year garner votes from South African citizens who would otherwise not support the atrocious party you represent; a party guilty of significant human rights abuses itself.
Exactly, they always in denial
F**k Pandor and f**k despotic Republic of South Africa.
Wow, seems to me many DM subscribers are now becoming exactly like News24 subscribers, where curse words, insults, etc. now comprise more than 50% of comments. Ans they get possibly 100 times the number of comments. This system of other subscribers have to approve comments is simply not working. Otherwise, how was this comment passed?
well, they let your comments through too though
Well, I once I commented as follows “what drivel!” And I got censored and received an email from DM yakking me out. Reeks of double standards.
Agreed!
Pandors’ rantings are, at best, disjointed, at worst, malicious and dishonest.
The terrible two, Pandor and Dangor, dealing with terrorists and funders as if their best friends
As if??? I would say they are NBFs.
Perfectly stated
Going to the ICC President to tell him what to do is similat to telling our Judges how to Judge a case. Are you serious Pandor?
This was one of my many questions. if they are telling international courts what to do, what is happening here at home?
Terrorists defending terrorists.
Colonisers defending colonisers
Land thives defending land thieves
San and Khoi would say the same thing to the Nguni tribes !!
Reasoning like a guilty land thief
Yebo!
@vic he is simply making the point that all civilisations and cultures are guilty of land grabbing. It has happened since the dawn of time. Is it right, of course not.
one mans terrorist, another mans freedom fighter…
Firstly let me say that I believe that the only way to solve problems effectively is via non racial non-religious and non-violent discussion, and I think both Israel and the Palestinians would achieve a lot more by learning from history, recognising the challenges holistically and working together to achieve a grown up outcome, recognising that compromise may be necessary on both sides.
The second thing I can say with 100% confidence is that you would hate Hamas with all your heart if it was your children and family raped and burned without warning.
The difference between a fighter and a terrorist as as follows: a fighter fights and a terrorist terrorizes. What Hamas did can in no world be called fighting, it was terrorism pure and simple.
Thank you Fanie. Did our politicians not know that Hamas started this war. (Of course they did, but our politicians decided to ignore those facts). Hamas are the ones who invaded Israel and took all those hostages. Hamas started this. Yet our clever, vote grabbing politicians decided this was the moment to support Hamas. It was so obvious that Israel could not allow this to happen and had to fight back. Hamas totally underestimated the Israelis – when I saw what had happened I thought to myself – here we go….. Hamas thinks Israel is going to sit back and beg for their people to be released. Or perhaps this was the plan to try to get the world to support Hamas. Whatever the thought process was behind the original atrocity, it has backfired spectacularly. Do not mess with Israel.
Read the rest of this site.
There is plenty of criticism of failures of the South African government.
At least one member of the South African legal team at ICJ has been part of major attacks through the courts on the government’s failings. Tembeka Ngcukaitobi in particular has proved to be quite the nemesis of Jacob Zuma.
Can’t we celebrate the government being on the right side for once?
Comments below claiming the government is despotic are ridiculous. South Africans suffer rights violations on a daily basis because the government is corrupt and rewards cronyism instead of achievement, but we are not a police state. Unlike Israel, we do not have numerous people detained without trial (“administrative detention” in Israel speak).
We forget this and some of these posts if we were a police state would land us in detention or killed, or jobless. A right we take for granted in South Africa, even with inept and corrupt government and let’s not forget equally corrupt private sector. There are no saints here but we on the humane side of this matter no matter our government failings. So stop excusing Israel, Hamas already listed a terrorist group and it is time we do same with Zionist led government of Israel and sanction and list them as well. Time for arrest warrant for PM Net and his bandits, as they did for Putin. (And not only a few Israeli settlers sanctioned by the US) Shameful it has not already happened.
Ah but SA aspires to that, look at the human rights record of our BRICS partners and specially the new joiners
How bout reporting your own country foe keeping people impoverished,unemployed etc
Truth!
*** Sideshow Bob has entered the chat ***
And the hostages – oh – that does not matter???
yes
You mean the thousands of Palestinians in Israeli jails, over several decades ?
He he – just like my children: Yes I was bad, but my sister was worse …so what I did must be fine!
Doiks. Classic Sukha
Many of those Palestinians in jail have never been charged or convicted, they are held in “administrative detention”, a system exactly like that used by the Apartheid government.
Please don’t embarrass the country even more than you already have minister!
If you remove the racial curtains, Pandor and the south African government are doing a fantastic job to stop the plausible act of genocide that Israel is commiting, as ruled by the ICJ.
The only arguments against that will be saying the law covers those of European decent than those whose genes link to African decent.
I normally put a face behind each comment and I have an idea how those who believe an occupier has the right to defend himself against the people he occupies look like.
If they agree then Russia deemed an occupier by Europe shares the same right.
There is really no point in debating this because, like the others you accuse, you are equally readable.
I will just make 2 observations:
1. It is simple to take a pious stance on the topic when it isn’t your wife whose been raped or your child burned.
2. We are all people, good and bad. There is no “right” here, only personal and religious perspective.
Wrong! Israel is oppressing and persecuting an indigenous people – officially. To compare this to South Africa’s failings is stupid, dumb, and wrong.
I couldn’t agree more, what is happening in Gaza can’t be compared to anything else, just like nothing can be compared to the holocaust, but the killings in Gaza is approaching the genocide by the nazis as we speak
Emotion equates to neither logic nor fact and you are so emotional you are not even able to honestly engage with the observations I am making.
It is precisely the inability to be objective that renders positive engagement and results impossible.
Btw I have nowhere made any statement about who is right and who is wrong. Because unlike you and many many commentators here I am humble and honest enough to acknowledge that the situation is far far too complicated to be summed up in such simple absolute terms.
Israeli’s are just as much indigenous to that region as the Palestinians are. Hamas are oppressing their own people far more than Israel is
And finally, regarding South Africa, I am nowhere drawing a comparison. I am simply stating that I don’t trust the ANC motives for their position, and neither should you if you would like to see your country and family prosper …and not have your children die needlessly in a pit latrine – which as far as I’m concerned is a form of human rights abuse, among many many others by the stealing, lying uselessness that is the ANC.
Nicely put, Fanie. This fight has been going on for over 3 500 years. Picking sides is not going to help anything. Only those directly involved on both sides can fix this. If they want to.
“stop the plausible act of genocide that Israel is commiting, as ruled by the ICJ.”. You are very confused. If an act is plausible it only means it is possible. It is not probable and it certainly isn’t is. You cannot stop something which isn’t but may just possibly be, and the ICJ did no such thing.
Look up plausible in the dictionary Sydney. The court found that it was plausible that Israel was committing Genocide.
Read what the ruling actually said John
Such a weak attempt at spin and the race card thrown in for good measure
Reaching again John
Which court order is she referring to? Perhaps the one which didn’t mention genocide, asked Usrael to be carefully, Hamas to release hostages and so on? The muddle of the road nothing findings and orders? Are you being entirely serious Pandoor? We all know you have some issues, but this might be a step too far.
There was no order forcing Israel to stop its military operation, but of course this was seemingly missed by the extremely dim-witted, obese Pandor and her fellow ANC idiots.
This narrow interpretation of the ruling handed down does not take into account the below
By 15 votes to 2, the State of Israel shall, in accordance with its obligations under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, in relation to the Palestinians in Gaza, take all measures within its power to prevent the commission of all acts within the scope of the Article 2 of the Convention, in particular, A) killing members of the group, B) causing serious bodily or mental harm to the members of the group, C) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part, and D) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.
By 15 votes to 2, the State of Israel shall ensure, with immediate effect, that its military does not commit any acts described in point 1 above.
By 16 votes to 1, the State of Israel shall take all measures within its power to prevent and punish the direct and public incitement to commit genocide in relation to members of the Palestinian group in the Gaza Strip.
By 16 votes to 1, the State of Israel shall take immediate and effective measures to ensure the provision of urgently needed basic services and humanitarian assistance to address the adverse conditions of life faced by Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.
By 15 votes to 2, the State of Israel shall take effective measures to prevent the destruction and ensure the preservation of evidence related to allegations of acts within the scope of Article 2 and Article 3 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide against members of the Palestinian group in the Gaza Strip.
By 15 votes to 2, the State of Israel shall submit a report to the court on all measures taken to give effect to this order within one month as from the date of the order.
Thanks for coming with the facts!
by 16 votes to 0 Hamas to forthwith return all hostages:
You forgot that one …
I was responding to a particular comment which did not mention Hamas but yes that indeed was part of the ruling. I am not sure if “ruling is the correct term at this stage but it will suffice.”
So basically: no finding on genocide. They must be carefull with civilians and a bunch of meaningless gumpf? You raise nit picking to a profession.
Nit picking? From the courts ruling
“54.In the Court’s view, the facts and circumstances mentioned above are sufficient to conclude
that at least some of the rights claimed by South Africa and for which it is seeking protection are plausible. This is the case with respect to the right of the Palestinians in Gaza to be protected from acts of genocide and related prohibited acts identified in Article III, and the right of South Africa to
seek Israel’s compliance with the latter’s obligations under the Convention.”
There can be no actual finding on Genocide until the court hands down a ruling which will take months or years.
Repeat it as many times as you like John, still means nothing and still gives Israel the rubber stamp to continue doing as it has been doing
An order to stop “killing all members of the group” means nothing? Provide basic services and humanitarian aid means nothing? Israel is in breach of at least those two orders.
They weren’t ordered to do that John, it tells them to be cognisant of their obligations under the convention, it doesn’t tell or order them to do anything
the court agreed to all point that the meticulous lawyers presented…
ICJ( no backbone) has asked apartheid Israel to stop killing civilians ( 25k ) and counting…
Once you use the expression “apartheid Israel” you lose credibility. Next you will be saying “genocidal Israel”. Parroting talking points is a MAGA thing.
You lived here long enough to know what apartheid looked like. There’s not much difference between Israel and its occupied West bank “Arabistan” than the Bantustans of our recent past. “Genocidal Israel” is pretty apt given the wanton slaughter of civilians in Gaza. ( Nothing can excuse Hamas’ actions but descendants of victims of pogroms and reprisals should not wreak vengeance on children)
Apartheid had the cornerstone of the Mixed Marriages Act, the idea for which was incubated in the Nazi concept of purity of race. From this cornerstone was built the rest – disenfrachisement, separate amenities (everything from toilets to busses to parks to stadia), job reservation, homelands/bantustans. The level of discrimination meted out under SA style Apartheid was a million miles away from what exists in Israel today. Yopu stretch the concep too jar.
Nowhere in the ruling was Israel told to stop killing civilians
” killing members of the group, B) causing serious bodily or mental harm to the members of the group, C) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part, and D) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.”
Quoted from the ICJ ruling
“Stop harming members of the group” does obviously include killing. Stop spreading misinformation Bibi Harper
Your understanding of International Humanitarian Law is somewhat lacking as is your interpretation of the Genocide Convention. Suggest you read up on it
So what the thoughtless cadre achieved was useless, the time, money spent and celebration was without merit? Who would have thought.
Useless in stopping the conflict in the Middle East but it will be a valuable election slogan. Already the DA is painted as anti Palestinian so the ANC will portray themselves as the party that fights for the marginalised. This will win the ANC votes.
It’s a mistake though. Opinion polls show a lack of support for the ANC on Israel. And Russia too while we are at it. Don’t believe me – head to a township and hear their opinions on Israel and the Ukraine. The ANC tries to position itself as a the voice of the silent African majority, but when even Uganda is trying to get as far as possible away from you must know you are way out of touch.
So the fact that Russia is killing thousands in Ukraine is not an issue ! Yemen , Syria etc not an issue . Hamas are not terrorists ???? I’m ashamed of SA governments one sided obvious antisemitism… Mrs. Pandor you are a disgrace to our country
I sadly have to agree with your comments Jennifer. It’s fine for Russia to do the exact thing Pandor is condemning? Weird! One wonders who the puppet master is, directing SA’s foreign policy?
exact same thing? wow… screwed up view JAne
Well, let us know the differences then … if it’s not the same.
I agree Rod.
Zai AD, kindly let us know the differences in these two wars. You obviously feel education is required here.
I agree with the comments of Jennifer and Jane – nothing screwed up there at all in their comments.
You are absolutely right, Jennifer. She is a shameful – as are the others in her corrupt and morally bankrupt excuse for a political party.
SA must focus on fixing its own problems where innocent people are being hurt and killed while the police stand and watch. Taxi violence, gender violence, farm murders, rape of children, gangsterism and other social evils must stop. This strategy is the desperate attempt of the ANC trying to distract the electorate from their total failure and lack of conscience at home.
Sadly I have to agree with this comment . I do not support what Israel is doing in Gaza , nor the actions of Hamas for that matter, but Pandor / the ANC are ignoring war crimes by Putin not to mention the ANC’s ghastly abuse of funds and power to the immense detriment of human rights in our own country .
Agreed
Yes.. The ANC has committed genocide…dying basic human rights in our country.. lack of safe water, lack of schooling, medical care, farm murders, law and order, thieving politicians, and the list goes on….
Whilst the results of ANC rule have lead to the issues mentioned it is not Genocide, please read the definition.
This constant misuse of the term Genocide is demeaning to the horrors of the Holocaust it’self from whence the term was coined.
So why do you use the term in reference to the conflict in Gaza?
And of course honourable minister Hamas has stopped firing rockets into Isreal and has released all hostages?
well RSA eventually gave in when and did away with apartheid but not its racist ingrained mentality by the oppressors… what the resistance fighters do is taking on oppressors… give back the land and peace will prevail
It wasn’t Palestinian land to start with….
That is debatable
No it’s not, cherry picking history again John?
It was Sir Hitler’s? how we miss him
@Vic Mash Disgraceful comment! Shows what a despicable human being you are
Vic you need to have a think before you open your mouth
Careful, Vic, your true colours are showing and they are not pretty.
You should be ashamed…you really should be – that comment falls within the textbook definition of hate speech.
That is nonsense. Hamas’ charter states: “Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement … (There is) no solution for the Palestinian question except through jihad … The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: ‘The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!’ …
Hamas wants no peace until all Jews are slaughtered.
See if you can rebut that.
You are quoting from their original charter. This has been superceded more than once and no longer expresses such radical fundamentalist views. Look it up.
Yet they persist in using it over sand over and over again
Worth pointing out that Hamas invaded Israel proper into fully undisputed territory and in the process committed a bestial genocide using medieval methods befitting savages.
So your point is redundant
But ignore the suffering of South Africans
Remarkable how energised the ANC is about dealing with death and deprivation 7000km away while being asleep to it right here.
Yes, indeed.
To the ANC, it would appear that local black lives definitely do NOT matter…what a sad state of affairs
The ANC government continues to ignore the genocide committed against white South African farmers – and spends millions on this obscene pursuit of Israel. It will do anything to deflect attention from its own massive shortcomings.
Bryan there is no genocide against white farmers. Horrible murders yes but genocide no. I suggest you read up on the definition of genocide.
Genocide – “the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.”
Deliberate killing – check, often accompanied by heinous torture.
Particular ethnic group – check – Boers / Afrikaners are being targeted on their farms.
With the aim of destroying – check. EFF leaders sing Kill the Boer, and there’s also a charming video of St Mandela and Ronnie Kasrils singing the same song on Youtube.
I will thank you in future to refrain from your shocking disrespect towards Boers and call on you to cease your rancid denialism forthwith.
Firstly I have nothing but respect for the Boers as I do for all law abiding decent people. I am the first to agree that our government has lost the plot and needs to do much more to stop the murders, kidnappings and general lawlessness and crime in our country.
You are quoting only the bits from the Genocide Convention that fit your argument. It needs to be read as a whole. The passage below narrows the definition to exclude your argument. The farmers are attacked not because they are “Boers” but because they are isolated easy targets for the, as always, cowardly criminals. The horrendous torture you mention often takes place in housebreakings in suburban areas as well, the difference is they are more likely to get caught if the criminals stick around for long.
“Importantly, the victims of genocide are deliberately targeted – not randomly – because of their real or perceived membership of one of the four groups protected under the Convention (which excludes political groups, for example). This means that the target of destruction must be the group, as such, and not its members as individuals. Genocide can also be committed against only a part of the group, as long as that part is identifiable (including within a geographically limited area) and “substantial.”
He is still scratching his head violently
Disingenuos at best sir. JvN made is point clearly – you are obfuscating. Your distinction between individual farmers and families and the group of farmers and their families is an obtuse construct.
There is little doubt they are under threat of extinction. Just because SAPS is no longer allowed to report these crimes separately does not mean they’re not genocidal in intent.
So John, the percentage of white farmers murdered is far higher than the percentage of palestinians killed in Gaza so by your yardstick, there is no genocide then is there
One of the problems with precise definitions of how and why people are killed is that makes not a jot of difference to them, the bereaved or the staff they leave behind jobless. I’d imagine that when your relatives have been tortured to death while political leaders engage in mostly peaceful Dubul’ ibhunu-ing it doesn’t seem very important. Oddly enough it does seem very important for some to insist that it doesn’t meet the precise definition and that always leaves me wondering whether they may be compensating for some knowledge or doubts.
If we dilute the definition of Genocide and use it where it does not apply then we demean it’s meaning and it’s horror, it becomes just another word for murder or xenophobia etc. All these are undoubtedly evil things but they are not Genocide.
Agree. If we use words incorrectly, they eventually lose their potency. The word
‘genocide’ us not being used properly by many today. I think, as CS Lewis said, this is an example of verbicide.
So why then is there this insistence to use it in this conflict where it is clear it is not the case
Where do you see me suggesting the dilution of the definition? One of the key elements of it is that the intent is to eliminate the target group by killing it’s members. Just as there are no doubt Jews who would like to see Palestinians eradicated so there are Arabs all over the middle east who wish them the same fate and who’s leaders state it quite openly. There are people in SA who want white farmers killed and their offspring driven from the land. Their leaders sing about it quite openly and one of them even famously said on tv that he wasn’t calling for it just yet. If Palestinian civilian casualties in Gaza where their army has embedded themselves meets the definition then so surely should that of Israeli Jews killed by Hammas or white farmers in SA. I hope the survivors of the latter groups are comforted that they aren’t the subject of an attempted genocide but I suspect that they aren’t.
Are you a professor … at which university ?
Serious question? Thought not.
C’mon Redwood, your retorts get weaker by the day
This position adopted by SA government is going to end badly for SA.
Relying on information from the UN and UNRWA is dangerous. They must know that a portion of aid is used for terrorism andhave been keeping quiet about it. Gaza is also a small place.
The US is the largest donor of UNRWA and has it’s flag burnt regularly; SA should learn from this.
Lastly; what resources is minister Pandor referring to that will be used to plug the UNRWA funding gap. The US alone donates about R9billion.
Well they’re not getting that aid money any more, donors of the vast majority of the funds have withdrawn their donations
We really don’t care, as long as the Palestinian’s killings can stop
The killing will stop when Hamas is gone
No it won’t. Maybe once there is a negotiated settlement between Israel and the people of Palestine it will stop. Eradicating Hamas will just lead to a new group fighting for the same reasons.
So there is no difference between hams and apartheid israel? and you are also admitting that apartheid israel is committing genocide by killing Palestinians indiscriminately?
You diminish the term “apartheid”. How silly.
Imagine the ANC could get behind sorting out South Africa like they got behind this ill conceived case to persecute israel for acting in self defence. This Pandor woman should take a careful look at her track record and that of her government before shouting about other countries
The Pandor woman comment is attacking a person being intelligent on a ministry she is appointed for.
She is so intelligent that she was openly against Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
For that she was reprimanded and she conceded because Europe had decided that the solution to the conflict was arming Ukraine.
She was instrumental in the African peace plan which was never taken serious by Europe although they are now considering it.
South Africa has intervened in all conflict in Africa through the same foreign office.
When the ICJ case was submitted it was dismissed by Israel and comments here until confirmation that south Africa had a right to present the case.
There are ministries dealing with internal issues like crime,social service and public works who are not performing due to corruption and political interference.
That does not mean the government has stupid policies, when applied correct they shock the big powers who thought everything is done in their terms.
Ukrainians were provided with transport and automatic visas straight to European housing schemes.
Palestinians are sleeping out in the open and their buildings bombed by weapons supplied by the same powers.
Business with Europe comes with political conditions that are not business oriented.
Yes south Africa will be punished for the ICJ stance but Israel and it’s Allies will be pariah states.
Ben Harper is dumbfounded by your logic
The minister and her government pick and choose their causes without the slightest twinge of conscience. They unabashedly cosy up to internationally condemned criminals, warlords, genocidal juntas while supporting unprovoked invasions of democratic sovereign territory and the brutal atrocities which accompany them. The South African government is an embarrassment to its country, its citizens and itself. It is dismissed as an hypocritical irrelevance by the international community.
Well said Peter
This government’s blatant hypocrisy has destroyed any vestige of credibility
“pick and choose’ is what all governments do… all over the world. If it is dismissed as “hypocritical irrelevance”, why did the ICJ not ‘throw out’ the case as many of the Zionist supporters had desperately hoped for ?
Stop interfering, we don’t trust you and your cANCerous party
Dr Naledi Pandor should be offered a Nobel peace prize and much more, for her intelligence, wisdom, insight and integrity, which is lacking in other “leaders”.
You can’t be serious…. or are you… I can’t tell if this is sarcastic or not?
The again you did start with “intelligence” so I reckon you’re joking!
hahahahaha
The Ig-Nobel prize, or a Razzie may be more appropriate
You realise you are commenting with your email exposed?
This is the internet you cannot trust the internet with personal information.
No brain, no pain
Does the Minister receive her information about what is happening on the ground through verifiable sources? Or is it Hammas that feeds them this information or should I say misinformation. It is known that a Hammas group was in South Africa to brief the Government. I am amazed at the hypocrisy of our government to want to interfere with processes in another country but yet our country is in such a mess. How can you stand up on the international stage and act as if you are so morally pure, when we can see and know that this is not true. Amazing how Hammas started all of this, but they are getting away with all the atrocities they have committed. Politics is truly a dirty game to play.
She clearly did not understand or pretends not to understand the court’s order. It made orders which nobody can disagree with such as accelerate humanitarian aid and punish rhetoric from right wing officials and as a sop to South Africa, “avoid any acts of genocide” but pointedly did not order a cease fire and specifically confirmed Israel’s right to pursue Hamas. Killings and even alledged war crimes can not be conflated with genocide, which was always a counterfactual and absurd charge.
UNWRA is effectively Hamas. Together with the Iranian proxies and South Africa they are part of the onslaught against Israel, the latter being a willing useful fool to Iran.
Well, if you rely soley on Al Jazeera and Hamas for your information then UNWRA was the best and only thing thing for the Palestinians. If you have no understanding whatsoever of what a genocide actually is and if your desired world view is one where Islam rules supreme then you are going to make an utter fool of yourself and your government over and over again.
Pandor is no fool. That she is malicious, is undoubted. Of course she understands the ICJ’s interm order (NOT judgement), and that it in no way ordered Israel to stop killing Gaza’s. But her agenda (which almost certainly mirrors that of the ANC/SACP) one of malice and disinformation – plain and simple. And yes, it will play well with (many) Muslim voters in SA, not to mention the useful idiots in the woke world here.
Many of whom post vociferously on these pages
Read the full judgement again, it is not as simplistic as those on both sides are trying to make out.
The court could not order a ceasefire, that would require both parties to be signatories to the court’s jurisdiction. That would need Hamas to be recognised as a nation. Israel’s right to pursue Hamas was not in debate, it is Israel’s excessive response against civilians that is the core of the matter.
But Israel’s response is not against civilians, civilian deaths are collateral damage and that tends to happen when the terrorist group embeds itself in the civilian population
The evidence of mass bombing and destruction by a massively powerful IDF of entire areas of Gaza cannot be construed as “collateral damage” If we were seeing a targeted response rooting out Hamas and rescuing the hostages collateral damage (euphemism at it’s best) would be far lower. Israel’s response has not been targeted in this manner and indeed smacks more of revenge than anything else.
John, you obviously have absolutely no concept or idea of how urban warfare is conducted
If Hamas had the courage of their convictions they would protect the civilian population and fight like true soldiers, on a battlefield facing their enemy but they don’t and they’re not, they are cowards (as most terrorists are) and hide amongst the population thereby condemning their own people to death
Ministers should rather concern themselves with the living conditions and unemployment of SA citizens !!!
“She said she hadn’t checked with the ANC on whether Iran was providing it with finance, as has also been rumoured.” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you kidding me? If this isn’t a smoking gun, what is? Come on DM – do your job.
Oh yes. Let’s challenge DM to do a deep investigative dive into this issue of the funding that Naledi professes to know nothing of….as long as it’s not Ferial or any other Hamas apologist who does the research and reporting.
We’ll know the truth soon enough. The ANC are far too brazen and sloppy to have put in enough effort to wipe their sticky fingerprints off the arrangements. I think of them like a prostitute with a serious coke habit as a metaphor for how they deal with the money they get from their johns and what they do with it. The money couch panto being a nice example of how that plays out in real life.
I couldn’t have said it better . Pandora and her vile box must be shut down and burnt 🔥
Definitely not Ferial
Agreed
This will be a test of journalistic integrity that I trust the Maverick will pass. Their apparent support for the ICJ action in particular and the Palestinian cause in general will hopefully not get in the way of them chasing down the truth of it’s motivations, funding, gratifications and participants. Given their track record of incompetence in matters of basic administration and their venality I’m doubtful that the ANC couldn’t have pulled it off on their own and that they are extremely unlikely to have done it without some sort of substantial compensation.
Strange how Pandor tries to be important about this issue while we as a country ignored the same courts decision to arrest a murderer from Africa while we kept him safe in our country at the expense of the taxpayer. They do have a problem with memory loss.
If Pandor had some integrity she would ask Hamas to release the remaining hostages and stop firing rockets at Isreal before demanding a ceasefire from Isreal. The notion that a ceasefire is required to release the hostages is simply absurd.
Hamas has brought this suffering on the Palistinians and are doing their damnest to make it continue.
While Israel continues to keep thousands of Palestinians hostage in their jails for several decades now ?
Hahahahaha, good one redwood
Correct, and using administrative detention without trial.
It’s time someone took naledi pander on about the merciless killings of white people in south africa and the extermination of the whites . As Cyrillic ramaphosa said in 1994 whites should be treated like frogs and thrown into a pot of cold water where they will enjoy it and slowly bring the water to a boil letting them die slowly . Wish the world woud see that . This speech is on Google. It’s an ANC vision over 25 years .
Don’t we in SA have enough serious problems if our own, for the government to waste its time and taxpayers money to mingle in international affairs that has nothing to do with SA?
Such a one sided view, never a comment around Hamas and the atrocities it perpetuates, how antisemitic it all is. Nevertheless all the killings should cease and there should be a push for an independent Palestinian state, free from Israeli control.
Do you mean State, or two -State…. a big difference. Name me any two State solutions that work? W Bank and Gaza are separated by near 50km.
Free from control or dependance? Because the way I see it, the Palestinians are incapable of generating enough economically to sustain themselves. Like South Africa, they’re going to want an unlimited period of redistribution to keep up. “[They] want six pretty white spots on each shine of the dice, they want it all to be equal – but [they] need to throw twice” – Chris Rea.
The right to self-determination is a fundamental human right, and Palestinians, should have the opportunity to govern themselves and determine their own future. The establishment of a Palestinian state would provide the Palestinian people with the chance to build their own institutions, develop their economy, and shape their own destiny. It’s their land that has been occupied since 1967.
International law supports the creation of a Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders, with East Jerusalem as its capital. Numerous United Nations resolutions affirm the rights of the Palestinian people and call for the end of the Israeli occupation. The two-state solution has been endorsed by the international community as the most viable path to a lasting and just resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Ultimately, a Palestinian state is not only a matter of justice for the Palestinian people. It is a key component of a broader vision for coexistence and mutual recognition between Israelis and Palestinians, fostering a future where both peoples can live side by side in peace and security.
It’s unlikely that Israel will ever agree as they have a source of labour on their doorstep in the Gaza and West Bank ghettos, that they control with an iron hand – and Pegasus.
You forgot the part where the two state solution has been rejected by Palestine every time it’s on the table
Where was this right to self-determination from 1948 to 1967 when Gaza was occupied by Egypt and the West Bank was similarly occupied by Jordan? How come no Palestine state was created during those years? The Arab states of Morocco, Algeria etc. were all freed from colonial rule, so this was nothing new.
But no – the PLO was founded in 1964 – three years before the 1967 war. And their stated aim was not an independent self-determining Palestine, but the obliteration of the state of Israel. When the Arabs got a hiding in the 67 war, “Palestine” did not lose independence – it had none – it simply got a new master that did way more for the betterment of the people of Gaza than Egypt ever did.
And talking of the “right to land”, perhaps an answer as to why archaeologists in that region have unearthed many ancient Jewish artefacts such as stone scripts and even coins, but have not found any Palestinian artefacts? Surely, there would be SOME trace of their presence?
Pro-Palestinian folk typically have no outcry over the loss of 800,000 lives in Yemen, the oppression of Copts in Egypt, the persecution of Christians in Lebanon and Iraq, never mind protesting the sorry plight of the Kurds in Syria and Turkey. No violent protests, no long essays and opinions, no ICJ rulings. Nothing. But Palestinians – the most vile grouping of international terrorists, they get your sympathy. Or is it just that so-called pro-Palestinians just can’t stand Jews and Israelis, being closet racists?
Your last sentence is your answer
Maybe she should look in her own backyard and SA is not even at war. I did not read any instruction for Israel to stop they have a right to protect their country and citizens.
You mean like South Africa ignored the ICJ order to arrest Al Bashir?? Duh, Naledi.
It was the International Criminal Court… that’s for individuals.
Does that mean there’s less importance then? Are their crimes against humanity and actual genocide are not relevant or important because it came from the ICC which SA is also signatory to instead of the ICJ?
Big difference, countries individuals
Really? So one has more relevance than the other? So if the ICC made the same ruling in this case then the outcome would have been unimportant and not worth anything?
Uhm, no, Hong-Hong Pandor, there was no order for Israel to stop its military operation. Seems the fact that you lost the court case, is finally getting through to you lot. Took you a while, didn’t it? The court gave Israel permission to carry on with its eradication of Hamas.
And innocent civilians ? I forget … “there are no innocent in Gaza!”
Where was ANC Goverment when Genocide was happening in South Sudan and when ANC government did not arrest FORMER Sudanese President when he was in South Africa.
Rather not comment about Pandor’s claims, but I do sometimes watch channel 406 (Al Jazeera), and I do get the impression that not much, if anything, has changed before and after the recommendations by the ICJ in The Hague.
It is only a few days!
Israel will not take any notice of South Africa, the UN or the ICJ. Israel is fighting an enemy that wants to destroy them and kill them as was seen on October 7. Jews have been in Palestine for 3000 years, they are fighting for their homeland and existence
You mean the ‘homeland’ that Britain gave them in 1948… and America offered to maintain it … in the longest ‘forever war’ ?
In would expect you of all people to be more astute and read up on the history of the region… Nah, joking, that would take a miracle and wouldn’t fit the twisted agenda
When someone struggles to put a basic sentence together, you cannot expect them to do research of any kind. Therefore, we can ask KS this – while talking of whose “homeland” it is, can you, KS, explain why archaeologists in that region have unearthed many ancient Jewish artefacts such as stone scripts and even coins, but have not found any Palestinian artefacts? Surely, if their claim dates back 2,000 or 3,000 years, there would be SOME trace of their presence?
Don’t bother, Redwood can’t handle facts
Of course nothing is going to change, the court gave Israel the go-ahead to continue as it was doing
That is not true, you know it is not true and yet you keep repeating it in the hope it sticks. Read the whole ruling and please quote the section you see as providing this response.
It is true, your inability to interpret the ruling correctly doesn’t make it true
No specific rebuttal?
Pandor’s arrogant disrespect for the intelligence of all South Africans is glaringly obvious from her infantile, selective choice of world atrocities to obscure her party’s sheer incompetence. She might earn a glimmer of our respect on the day her government closes the Russian, Chinese, Ugandan and so many other embassies …
A lot comments attacking the minister and the ANC. I really like this position though (and if you don’t you’ve lost your moral compass):
South Africa had to protect its national interest. “But the concern about the national interest must not make us a partner to atrocity,” she said.
Except that’s not really true now is it because they are partner to atrocities and those who have committed them
Unfortunately you are correct
Dear Naledi. Maybe try doing something about the almost 30 000 murders annually in your own back yard before pointing fingers….
Naledi, you need to read the judgement; if you have, then there are clearly words used that you do not understand. Get someone with an IQ over 120 to read it slowly to you, and then get them to explain what it all actually means.
You will almost certainly have to find someone outside the ANC.
What an open minded, helpful and useful comment, not. That is just rude.
No, but what is rude is our Government continuing to use issues like this, and the failure to hold JZ to account, as point-scoring and virtue-signalling, all as part of their build-up to elections.
Years and years of sitting on hands, attending at the Zondo Commission, seemingly interested in justice and then glacial inactivity and indifference.
Pandor is being mealy-mouthed, picking on one word in complex sentences and assuming, because she is a Minister, we will not notice.
In the words of Lord Gnome, of Private Eye – “Pass the sick bag, Alice”.
Where did the money come from to settle the ANC’s 100 million court case to enable them to participate in this years elections?
You forgot to mention that Hamas is still holding hostages and Israel was not ordered to cease fire!
How revealing! “….she had spoken to some colleagues who had direct contact with Hamas…” What, with a proscribed terrorist organisation, financed and backed by Iran, a pariah state? And you yourself phoned the head of Hamas the day after the attack on 7th October. What did you say? “Congratulations on the atrocities perpetrated by your militias. Israel had it coming”? And stop bleating on about genocide. You wanted the ICJ to decide that Israel was committing, or about to commit genocide. It declined to do so. In fact the word genocide does not appear in the ICJ’s provisional judgement. I used to think Pandor was one of the better ministers in the Cabinet (not that that is saying much, they are such a sorry lot). I do so no longer. I hold her, Ramaphosa and her ministerial colleagues, especially those in “direct contact with Hamas” in contempt.
So do I Chris. Well said
Is that why America, its proxy Israel , and Hamas are running to Qatar to negotiate ?
The ANC does as it likes so why shouldn’t Israel
But Israel has been doing so … even before the ANC came into power … apparently for more than 70 years !
Weak redwood, weak
Pandor is another major embarrassment to South Africa. Our entire cabinet and all it’s allies are Hamas supporters. Now are Banking institutions are also implicated in dealings with this terrorist movement. Are our Dirco handing out free keffiyeh’s to all these puppets?
I read the article on “the recent attacks ON hospitals”, fully expecting hospitals to have been bombed with lots of civilian and staff casualties. Turns out the IDF did a disguised raid on a hospital and shot dead 3 Hamas militants alleged to be planning further attacks (one of which was in hospital for treatment); no mention of anyone else harmed or damage to the hospital. Not sure how that equates to genocide?
That was in Jenin on the West Bank
Sounds like you guys have direct access to Israeli military intelligence ? I thought the IDF was only operating in Israel and its occupied territories of Gaza and West Bank ?
Shame, it doesn’t fit your agenda?
I think the 20 000 dead Palestinian women and children might disagree with you – assuming they hadn’t been little more than collateral damage in Israel’s ‘right to defend itself’…
Where are those numbers from? How many of those were combatants?
How many women and children were combatants? Let’s assume the numbers are inflated and include combatants, is that then 5,000, maybe 10,000 innocents?
None of the numbers have been verified by anyone, just look at the supposed reporting on the numbers, they were precise in every way from day one, somehow miraculously they were able to produce exact numbers even though this would have been impossible. The numbers short up to 23,000 in a matter of weeks, every single time and exact number given. Now it’s all over the place, 23,000 then 27,000 then 25,000 then 20,000. And guess what, not once since this started has there been any mention of combatant deaths… not once
Lets add to this shall we, particularly with your obsession with genocide. Claims of genocide and the casualty numbers (even if they were true) simply don’t add up. The claim of 25,000 killed, is a mere 1.2% of Gaza’s population of over 2 Million people. If genocide is the intent, as you wish it to be, then they’re doing a really bad job if the barely manage to kill 1% of the entire population in the 5 months the war has been going on
We have good reason to doubt Hamas’ numbers; but even if I agreed with them your remark is irrelevant. Pandor specifically referred to the attack post the ICJ ruling, which is horribly misrepresented in the article above as an attack ON a hospital. The bias and lies on both sides are thick in this horrible situation.
There is a wonderful story about taking the beam out of your own eye before pointing out the mote in one other’s eye.
I would say that 20000 murders and 15000 road deaths per year constitute genocide as well. If I was in Israel, I would bring a case to the ICJ against SA for allowing this genocide to continue every year without taking any action to solve it. The Israeli method would help a lot to sort out this disaster.
27,000 murders last year, alas this is the only record the anc is breaking every year
With respect, you are mixing your proverbs. It’s either “Look not for the twig/splinter in my eye before your remove the log/beam from your own”, or “Look not for the mote in my eye before you remove the boulder from your own.”
(Please don’t see this as a correction, or me pointing out twigs in your eyes when I know I have a sheet of shutter-pine in mine! I’m not nearly informed enough to make meaningful commentary on this topic. I offer this is the spirit of precise language, which seems to be a hot topic among commenters today.)
It’s actually a quote from everyone’s favourite purportedly magic Jew, our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ; from his legendary ‘Sermon on the Mount’.
Matthew 7:3-5 (New International Version):
“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
Spoken like a true carpenter! Someone who knows how to build things. On the topic of some of the other commenters, some of you’s need to stop looking for twigs in each other’s eyes and rather remove the 𝘣𝘰𝘰𝘮 from your own – because whatever you are smoking, it’s making you irrational.
Nowhere does it say that Israel must stop the killings – it says to try to avoid killings that can be regarded as genocide – doesn’t she know how to read what the judgement says instead of making up her own interpretations. That Naledi Pandor is very, very sparse with the truth.
Please tell John P that, this escapes him
I believe the below specifically orders Israel, amongst other things, to cease killing members of the group.
Quoted from the ICJ ruling
The State of Israel shall, in accordance with its obligations under the Convention on the ll measures within its power to prevent the commission of all acts within the scope of Article II of this Convention, in particular:
(a) killing members ofthe group;
( b ) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; and
( d ) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
“In accordance with its obligations under the convention” that’s the part you don’t seem to grasp
“killing members of the group” is the part that you refuse to see
Cherry picking, again you cannot grasp the concept of the entire meaning
As we wait
Since she is on a roll here, when is she heading to the ICJ to file papers against Russia?
[end sarcasm]
The minister’s war rhetoric sounds like a yapping little dog, angry that it can’t really bite.
A Jack Russel srpings to mind.
Aah Jon Quirk – you write what I think!
A toothless bulldog, with the drool
WHY DONT YOU CLOSE YOU EMBASSY IN MOSCOW ALSO
Having listened to most of the media conference, much of it has been said before. I need to also make it clear that I believe that Palestinians have indeed suffered appallingly at the hands of Israel. But I have to take issue at the minister’a assertion that there is no anti semitism in South Africa. There has always been antisemitism here for many decades and in different forms with varying different manifestations of this. There also has been less here than in many other countries. But this has changed in a major way since the October 7 horrors followed by the extraordinary mass slaughter and destruction of Palestinians and their land and buildings . What is a mass demonstration of driving into “Jewish areas” which was openly stated and then followed up, what are the posters among pro-Palestinians as seen on TV and in Public. That may not be by all, but is now open. The boycotts of Jewish Businesses is based firstly on the fact that the owners are Jewish but also on “Zionists” . There is largely a belief that all Jews are Zionists and therefore the enemy. I do not follow that argument but I am Jewish. What are the physical attacks seen (not always and not at all by pro-Palestinians by any measure ). What are words regularly uttered much more now than in the past that Jews deserve what got they got in the Holocaust. I am not saying that this is the rule and not exceptions —. But that minority has grown alarmingly. I signed the letter from many Jews showing concern for what Israel has done to Palestinians. But that letter was also signed by a former cabinet minister who says he is “of Jewish dissent” and can’t bring himself to say he is Jewish. This was followed by an appalling video lauding the actions taken on October 7. And many of us Jews have found that friends who like to say they are “progressive” but end up trivialising the Holocaust and what it means to Jews. And I think minister Naledi Pandor herself is pretty much in that camp. I know the ANC itself is not antisemitic and I have always voted for them and I do not think the move the by the government recently is motivated by anti-semitism. But moves such as this and other statement have opened the way for many to show themselves to be not just anti Zionism or anti Israel which is fused into one thing although there are many Jews who are neither Zionists nor Israelis. A great deal of this is antisemitic.
And minister Pandor herself in rubbishing things that Jews are very sensitive about has let her slip show. At the very least she doesn’t give a fig about about Jews . How can she think there is no antisemitism here?.
Indeed. Just look at the antisemetic behaviour against Daniel Schay by the ANC/EFF/Al-Jama’ah/etc in the Joburg City Council on 31 Jan 2024. The whole lot of them really showed their true colours, yet again.
Wait, what ? Has she abided by the ICJ order to call on Hamas to release the hostages forthwith ? Yeah… thought not…
Oh my God! Who let this woman loose on the world stage? She is a complete embarrassment, a consummate liar, and preaches only to impress the wavering ANC electorate. She doesn’t know if Iran gave money to the ANC? Really? Certainly she doesn’t know how to tell the truth. What awful people these are.
It is people like you Hillary who keep the ANC and will promote EFF into power.
Dr Pandor is heading the foreign affairs ministry, not the police,crime intelligence,public works or finance, the blatant blame here is motivated by sinister motives.
She reports to the president and can influence decisions but she cannot overide instructions and policies.
Pre 1994 any comment against the party or government landed people in jail.
For the ANC to win votes it rightfully reminds people of apartheid and people start paying attention.
Israel as a state is comitting war crimes daily in Gaza against Palestinians and the sin is their ethnic origin.
Comments are blaming everything except except the one obviously and crucial reality.
Unfortunately political opposition doing this scares voters of colour away.
Elections are not about intelligence only it’s about numbers.
As much as there is a huge outcry about domestic issues the omission of apartheid acts committed in Israel by parties who support the Israel’s right to defend it’s self says a lot.
A balanced criticism is one that points out bad and acknowledge good.
Well said Kenneth!
The government should fix the problems at home first before trying to save the world….
Such pandering while allowing genocide in Africa to go unnoticed…
The elections are coming….!
OK so you have done your Israel/Gaza bit. now let us see you do the same for Russia/ Ukraine. we may all have a smidgen of respect for you then. by the way get your colleagues to sort out the mess the ANC has created in South Africa.
The absence of a similar stand by Ms. Pandor against Russia’s war crimes against Ukraine has me wondering if her actions are less than altruistic and even perhaps related to, dare I say it, garnering votes for the ANC at the upcoming election.
She says nothing herself about Putin ignoring the ICJ but claims South Africa is not antisemetic??
As I recall, Hamas, after the judgement, if that is what it was, fired more rockets into Israel.
Quite how SA will monitor when they have no access in Israel, sellf- imposed, I don’t know….probably rely on Hamas.
The ICJ is shortly to rule on the Russian invasion of Ukraine…genocide too perhaps in these loose definitions….. What action will she take on Russia.
. Where ever, do two state solutions work. W Bank and Gaza are separated by near 50 km.
Keep on trying with the 50k separation lark/irrelevance, like our apartheid government (which you did not support I am sure) with its ‘homelands’ policy.
more irrelevant content
Is Hitler’s topic relevant?
Please explain your comment Vic
Its easy Pandor..send some of your parties people to go demonstrate in Gaza and to start working to the area to assist the sufferers. you have lots of unemployed sitting waiting for something to do – pay them the minimum wage and send them to help there
Its bad to shell innocents in anyones language but the ANCs hypocrisy is jarring. Basically its not ok to shell Gazans but ok to shell Ukranians. The ANC are just nasty and need to go.
I attended a breakfast at which Ms Pandor was the guest speaker. This was at the beginning of her political career. I gathered from her speech, that as a free thinking professional educator she was not very happy with having to abandon her personal opinions/thoughts in favour of the party line. Her candor impressed me and she went up in my estimation. I can’t believe this is the same woman in the above article. In my opinion she has sold her soul and become just as corrupt as the ANC. I am not sure whether she professes to be a Christian or not. If she does I would recommend that she read Matthew chapter 7 verses 1 to 5 and reconsider her continued membership of the ANC.
She’s a Muslim – converted to marry her husband. Join the dots.
Please join the dots for us
As is Dangor the poodle
Was that before or after she converted to Islam?
Aha .. the Christian evangelist .. to the rescue of all the ‘heathens’ !
Wow, is there anything you’re not butthurt about?
The minister is more concerned about Gaza than the human rights violations of her party on the people of SA. She and her cronies will fall on their sword after the elections and we will ensure that they are all treated for their failing health in a state hospital.
Russia has not acceded to the ICJ as well, so I wonder what she is going to do.
Pandor is a disgrace and should accept the ruling of the ICJ. Pure cognitive dissonance or extreme bias but she definitely shown that celebrating a so called victory at the ICJ and now crying because it didn’t pan out like she thought, is tantamount to the Gazan citizens celebrating October 7 and crying when the IDF responded in kind.
So far 9000 Hamas fighters have been eliminated, leaving a ratio of around 2 civilians killed for every fighter. Far better than most modern conflicts, considering Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on Earth and its leaders, the terrorist organisation Hamas hide behind women and children and embed themselves in tunnels under homes, hospitals, mosques and schools which they routinely use to launch rockets from. Their mission is to wipe Israel off the map.
Let that sink in for those demonising Israel for their actions. No genocide so no ceasefire and the ICJ clearly made that ruling.
How about releasing the 132 remaining hostages which were kidnapped from Israel? – the ICJ made that ruling too.
South Africa has sold its soul to the highest bidder, we are just another proxy of the evil Iran regime and it’s the ordinary SA citizens who will suffer the consequences.
The numbers of both the Hamas dead and the Palestinian civilian dead remain unsubstantiated.
The “Hamas are embedded/hide behind women and children” is largely unsubstantiated and is largely IDF propaganda. There will be some cases of this but I doubt it is standard practice.
The ICJ did NOT rule that there was or was not Genocide, only that there was sufficient evidence presented to investigate further.
The sold to Iran story is rumor mongering at best
Some bold statements of fact there which are themselves unsubstantiated. There is ample video footage of Hamas rockets being fired into Israel from residential properties before the invasion taken and disseminated by Hamas itself. That on it’s own is evidence of them being embedded in the civilian population and ignoring all the material that the IDF has released isn’t required to negate it. They called on Gazans to ignore the pre invasion calls by the Israel for civilians to travel the 10km or so south that would have taken them out of harms way. These calls were made online and in Hamas managed telegram groups and are easy enough to verify. The ANC has sold out our foreign policy a number of times before. You might be right that their sudden buoyant financial state, their audience with Hamas, Pandor’s trip to Iran and the ICJ stunt are being incorrectly linked by rumour mongers but I suspect not as it’s 100% in character. Doubt it will be more than a month or two before it’s conclusively proven.
Your post largely is guilty of exactly the points I raised.
Why not have a crack at rebutting my points then?
Pity the SA Government ignores the ever-increasing corruption, crime, poverty, and farm murders in South Africa.
Didn’t her government ignore an international arrest warrant about the same thing once? And did everything to prevent their Russian friend from not being arrested and not put them in a position to execute the arrest warrant during a Brics summit? And did the same government not abstain from condemning Russia for a totally unprovoked war in Ukraine? Not to defend any war, but at least Israel is retaliating on an attack on their country. So at least three times they did the exact opposite of what she says. What a hypocrite.
And Putin will say that the attack was provoked by the civil war ukraine waged against the Russian speaking populace in the Donbas region of ukraine. And of course the disregard Nato showed for the Minsk agreement… which it has many times drawn public attention to and tried to do so diplomatically… ukraine will retaliate that russia agitated and funds the russian speaking separatists in the donbas region… russia will say that ukraine was never really a country… but just a hidey-hole for some Nazis… and a piggy trough for american politicians… and the Nazis will say all they wanted to do was prevent globalisation and the economic powerhouse’s threats to their sovereignty… and on and on and on and on and on… it really is kinda tiring… and there are no good guys… anywhere, but good honest normal people on the ground… who knows that in this world you need to get along with your neighbour…
Not once, twice
It is shocking to me how many comments in any of the Israel/Gaza responses are based on the assumption that Israel can do no wrong.
Whataboutism is a standard response, what about Sudan, what about Ukraine, what about farm murders. Yes these are terrible situations but rather than being used to deflect criticism of Israel they should be mentioned in a genuine attempt to make progress in these countries and at home. How many of those making these comments really give a fig about Sudan etc?
The next regular is “it is all Hamas’s fault” No it is not, Hamas is certainly not an innocent party and have done terrible things, that is not an excuse for the devastation we have seen Israel perform in this war.
How about “All Palestinians are complicit”, or “Hamas is using hospitals, apartment blocks, refugee camps etc. to hide amongst civilians” Well yes, maybe sometimes, but to allow for the deaths, injuries and blanket destruction we have seen definitely not a reasonable argument.
We also have to remember that, as Hiram Johnson said, “the first casualty of war is the truth”. The large majority of information we receive comes from the IDF or Hamas and in both cases requires a large pinch of salt before digestion. That so many journalists have been killed does not help either.
Or how about “”the Jews were there first” no no “the Palestians were there in the bronze age.” Really who cares? They are both there now and need to learn to deal with that and come up with a solution
Perhaps it is time we all took a step back and had a think before we comment with knee jerk parroted responses. For once South Africa or more specifically our ANC government has done a good thing in attempting to bring order to a chaotic situation. This certainly does not wipe their slate clean but one good thing is better than none.
Your post clearly states your view that there’s misinformation from both sides? So you believe the death toll in Gaza to be accurate and that it’s only women children and ordinary citizens, no combatants included?
Or how about Hamas charter which clearly states that its goal is the destruction of Israel?
When 22 out of 23 Middle Eastern states are Muslim and worlds only Jewish state (also the only democracy) the size of the Kruger National Park is the problem?
Israel will defend its borders and its citizens and will ensure Hamas is completely dismantled whether you or the South African government like it or not.
In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king. #FAFO
Yes as you stated I believe there is misinformation from both sides, the rest of your comment on this is therefore redundant.
The Hamas charter has been modified significantly, I suggest you read a recent version.
What has being the only Jewish state in the middle east got to do with the Gaza problem? Arguing that Israel has been at war previously with many of these states is a different debate altogether.
Israel is entitled to defend it’s borders and citizens, it is not entitled to destroy Gaza and it’s citizens in the process.
Sop you’re ok using one piece of history concerning the region but ignoring the rest? It’s OK to call upon the history of Israel’s actions on Gaza but ignore the actions of ALL of Israel’s neighbours against her
Opening that debate opens a can of worms going back to the creation of the state of Israel by the western world if not before.
Cherry picking fragments of the very long history does not help either so either consider ALL of the history or NONE of it
I agree to disagree.
“Assumption that Israel can do no wrong” “whataboutisms” is how you describe a differing viewpoint to yours. Your bias is obvious.
The deaths on both sides are tragic and I feel empathy for the civilians in Gaza that are dying but these are casualties of war and not genocide.
The destruction of Gaza too is unfortunate but then again it’s necessary to completely destroy the terror network which covers almost every square inch of Gaza.
A 2 state solution would be ideal if both sides could agree to it. From the river to the sea is not a solution.
I support the idea of peace.
But that can only ever happen if Hamas and its ideology is completely destroyed.
The destruction of Gaza can never bring peace, only a negotiated solution will achieve results
How many times has Hamas called for or agreed to a negotiated peace? Come now, how many times?
You have to admit John that at the moment when it comes to our government they only seem to look at one side of the story, completely ignoring any facts that don’t fit into their narrative. Even most articles on DM completely omit the continued rocket attacks from Hamas after the judgement and the directive of the ICJ to Hamas to release hostages. In light of this unbalanced reporting and the misinformation you mentioned, it is normal that people will express their views differently and emotionally. The atrocities of October the 7th are often justified by pro Hamas commentators and the human shield tactics that Hamas use often ignored.
Don’t get me wrong, at this point I condemn both sides for the ongoing violence, but even if the new charter from Hamas doesn’t call for the eradication of Israel and all Jews (any more!), it still doesn’t really offer any proper solution that will incorporate Israel into a future. The same can be said of Israel, with a head of the state that is clearly not very concerned about the plight of the Palestinians and their future.
Our government and to some degree our media is not reporting facts but rather expressing one side opinions. Even the ICJ judhement is being purposefully misinterpreted by seasoned journalists. And often these opinions are accompanied by ad hominem attacks and unreasonable demands. Any commentator for instance that expects Israel to pack their bags and just leave is deluded just as expecting Palestine to not fight back is.
Well said Karl, a reasonable and rational response. Pity others do not follow a similar principle.
I found your “knee jerk parroted responses” criticism rather amusing. Based on what I have read in every article about Gaza, you appear to be the most prolific commentator, most of which would comfortably fit this description
Whilst a regular commentator I am certainly not one of the most prolific. Possibly quote some of these comments that you find fit your accusation.
And here it is….. yet another knee jerk response
??
No need for question marks, John P, your confusion is clearly evident.
Therefore, to assist in your understanding, may I first suggest you look up the definitions of the two words you have used here, namely “knee-jerk” and “parroted”
Then underline three words common to most, if not all dictionary definitions, namely “automatic”, “predictable”, and “repetitive”
Finally, read through your responses to dissenting opinions on the subject of Gaza and the ICJ, and take note of how these three words are usually applicable.
I trust this adequately explains my amusement at your criticism of others, for indeed, such a classic case of projection deserves some recognition!
By the way, one other trait I have evidenced is your desire to have the last word, so please be my guest as I wont be taking this discussion any further.
John can can be compared to the anc on so many levels, he believes in repeating a lie over and over again until it becomes truth, except that it is still a lie
Thank you John P. Yours is the only rational comment here.
Merci Beaucoup Louise
Agreed.
Notice she doesn’t say a thing about releasing the hostages – that’s irrelevant to her.
Please stop the killing on both sides
Im surprised that Pandor and the current government of SA can spend so much time, energy and tax payers funding on this when we have so much attention needed at home? Instead of worrying that the Palestinians have no water food or medical attention, perhaps they should be looking in their own backyard and getting it right here first!
Exactly, cause they not experiencing the daily suffering of the people on the ground in SA, they get to live the high life, eat well, live well, travel, continues water, continuous supply of state sponsored electricity, free meals, while the poorest of the poor, have to go hungry, no roof over their heads, live in fear. This government of the day, only takes and gives very little or anything back to the people they supposed to serve and look after.
Hey Pandor. Your support of terrorism and anti-semitism is blatently obvious as your entertainment of Hamas here in SA clearly shows. For a true picture of what is happening in Israel/Palestine/Gaza, readers would be amazed to find that a podcast and attached transcript of the situation by neuro-scientist and philosopher Sam Harris shows that only one element is to blame for the whole mess in Israeli/Gaza and in other situations around the world. That element is a worldwide religious following which calls on Muslims to kill other Muslims as well as Jews and anyone else who doesn’t agree with their sick fundamentalism. Access the Sam Harris podcast by Googling Sam Harris-the 5 myths about Israel and the war in Gaza. It has a text transcript of the podcast included. The ANC NEC would be well advised to read this instead of listening to Naledi Pandor and Cyril Ramaphosa.
Sam Harris is a well known Atheist who is critical of ALL religions including Islam. It is a truism that more wars are based on religious fervor than most anything else. The core belief in these religions is life after death. Perhaps if we all believed that our life on this world is the only one we have we would fight harder about going to war?
Yes. Agreed, Assume this is the only 1 you have. No martyrdom.
Sam Harris is a well known Atheist who is critical of ALL religions including Islam. It is a truism that more wars are based on religious fervor than most anything else. The core belief in these religions is life after death. Perhaps if we all believed that our life on this world is the only one we have we would fight harder about going to war?
And you can put the podcast speed on slow…
This belongs on r/RareInsults. A masterpiece.
Hee hee hee – good one!!!
Thank you herr Adolf Netanyahu !
Again Kanu comments of this nature do not support your cause at all
The Jews lost their sympathy status of victims of genocide the moment they started committing genocide in Gaza
There is no logic in that statement
Weak Redwood, very weak and in extremely bad taste
Please post the video of the EFF singing “Kill the Boer Kill the Farmer”
Does that not count as genocide.
What did SHE/ ANC do about that threat to an ethnic group same as Palestines?
According to the dictionary definition of the term, no – singing a song doesn’t actually count as genocide …
LOL, Israel supporters are killing me…..they all cant reason and all they can think of is defending apartheid Israel
Ah yes but some of us do see it as being suggestive of intent and incitement when it’s done 30 years after the liberation struggle that it sprang from ended. If an Israeli politician mouth farting about wiping out Palestinians is evidence of genocidal intent then it’s not a huge stretch to see members of the SA political elite singing about killing white farmers as the same.
It is obvious, when reading all the utterances by the ANC, they have an absolute fear of losing the up-coming election. Other than this Pandor, should consider what she says as it is obvious she is hell-bent on destroying Israel. Israel was never instructed to cease the fight they are fighting, this of course if I understood the instruction from the ICJ. correctly. Perhaps the Minister should revisit the finding of the ICJ, so that she can have clarity on this matter. It is sad that she by her rhetoric is alienating, previous Global Partners, partners we certainly should not have to loose, because she has an agenda and a narrative to suit her. This of course is just my opinion.
When people stand up for a just cause (ask Tutu) … it is certain to alienate ‘some’ partners, with both sides claiming the moral high ground ! So what if they ‘lose’ the next election .. it won’t be the end of the world? What if another corrupt organisation comes to power, like our previous apartheid one ? Both Tutu and Madiba warned about the possibility of the ANC losing power .. so it should not come as a surprise !
South African Government ( The ANC) are alienating the very “Western Powers” that implemented sanctions against the Monstrous Apartheid Government to bring about Regime change ( the words of CR) . Why are you stabbing the US , the UK , France in the back? Thei ANC does not care about the people of South Africa. Only about their Own Agenda to rape and pillage this country for their own pockets.. pretty much what they ( the ANC) accused the NP of.
Why not put so much effort into sorting out Eskom? and Transnet? the Police force…
If the USA does not renew Agoa where will the cheap chicken that feeds so many impoverished people of all races in SA? Who will buy the Platinum? ?
It is time for the people of RSA to stand up against this New Goverment , who has become corrupt like the old..
In the words of Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela.
If the ANC does to you what the Apartheid government did to you, then you must do to the ANC what you did to the Apartheid government.” – , Cosatu Conference, 1993
What is being done in SA to stop the killing of our own people? You cannot preach to the world when your own house is not in order.
Which people are being killed in South Africa? Palestinians are being murdered on daily basis and you compare it with our domestic crime stats? Just because Palestinian’s are not white, their deaths don’t matter?, you lot cried a lot about Ukrainian’s children were murdered by Russia because they are pale
Please stop, it’s embarrassing
If this isn’t casual racism I’m not sure what is. Classy.
it’s not casual, it’s blatant and full blown
That chip on your shoulder is distorting your view
Minister Pandor should take heed of the saying that “people who live in glass houses should not throw stones”. I believe that the ANC is guilty of crimes against humanity, but they are either too blind, or stupid to see this, or are using Israel / Gaza as a last desperate election ploy to save the ANC government. SA experiences 77 murders a day, 8 million people live in shacks and countless others on the street, more than 2 million are hungry and have to beg for food, 12 million have no reliable water supply and many have no sanitation, leading to disease. Hospital facilities are inadequate. Law and order has broken down and the criminals know they will not be caught. Road rules are disobeyed with very little concern by the authorities. Not to mention the demise of state infrastructure (ESKOM, railways, etc). The list goes on. The reason – the ANC and its associates have been mismanaging, defrauding and stealing. The ANC spent many millions on the Zondo commission which incriminated many – how many have been prosecuted? What has happened to the once proud SA? Let’s solve our own problems first.
I Agree with your comment, one hundred precent, why is it when someone nails the hammer square on the head, that the usual commentators become so quiet, its somewhat defining. Why don’t all these intellectuals, take our goverment to task? Cause its earier to sit in the commentators box, as aposed to being on the field. This is obviously my opinion.
Check out ” Testimony by UN Watch Executive Director Hillel Neuer in U.S. Congress”.
There’s no mention of this in the news?
Check out ” Testimony by UN Watch Executive Director Hillel Neuer in U.S. Congress”.
There’s no mention of this in the news?
And there won’t be because it doesn’t fit their agenda. They’d rather have you believe that these events are manufactured post 7 October and not for 9 years now
She used up her last money from Hamas or Iran so she wants her next instalment.
Naldi Pandor has clearly never fought in a war. Civilians die. Combatants dressed as civilians die. Child soldiers die. Innocent kids die. The only relevant question is what ratio are civilians dying – to combatants? Most wars average 15:1. That’s Fifteen civilians getting killed in the crossfire for every One soldier or militant. WW2. Yemen coup. Iran vs Iraq. Syrian War. Ukraine Russia. All an average of 15:1. It’s sad but reality. Take a guess what the Gaza War ratio is. 30:1? 46:1? The answer that both Israelis and Gazans agree on is 2:1. In the past three months Israel has dropped over 30,000 bombs on Gaza. So how are there only 23,000 casualties?
100% spot on. Except for the fact that Hamas run Gaza health ministry doesn’t include combatants in their numbers.
The death toll has not been independently verified either.
IDF could have wiped out the entire population of Gaza by now if they wanted to.
And they proved early on that the fabricate the numbers, the claim that over 500 were killed when an Israeli missile targeted a hospital which then turned out to be about 5 killed by a Hamas fired rocket from within Gaza that failed and fell into a car park across the road from the hospital.
There is no verification and certainly no credibility in the claimed casualty numbers
Agreed! The fact that the hospital bombing and 500 deaths was debunked and verified that it was a misfired rocket from within Gaza that killers only 5 people didn’t stop the damage caused by world media from publishing it without verification and to this day people still believe it was an Israeli rocket.
The pro Palestinian propaganda and fabrication of lies has only increased since then. It’s a deliberate tactic to sway opinion and demonize Israel.
Media should be held to account for what they publish and how objective their reporting structures are.
SA has a very one eyed view on this as it suits their narrative. There’s other forces at play here which is obvious to any reasonable educated individuals.
SA has sold its soul and foreign policy to the highest bidder, to line the pockets of its ruling party and its members.
Their first press release on the matter which was flighted by Al Jazeera and taken down the next day claimed the death toll was 1000.
Because the anc sold itself to the highest bidder so it could legitimately take part in an election the iners now has to be paid. The tail is now wagging the dog. Forever doing the bidding of hamas/hezbollah/Iran will be a commonplace duty this government will have to add to its daily task. The piper paid and now you got to dance to his tune. On another note there are millions of South Africans who do not and never will support the terrorists of Gaza. Do not play with the apple of God’s eye.
Please do not present rumor or assumption as fact. At most there is a suspicion that the ANC received money from Iran. There is absolutely no proof.
But your basing all your counter-arguments in rumour and assumption, at least be consistent john
Indeed I am consistent and base my comments on looking at more than one side of the argument. You however are certainly consistent on your absolute support of the Netanyahu position and never let the facts get in the way of an opinion.
Wrong. I look at the facts and the facts are plain to see, nothing in the ICJ order stops Israel from doing what it is doing, absolutely nothing. Its you who won’t allow facts to get in the way of your opinion. And pray tell, when have I ever voiced support for Netanyahu? I challenge you to show me one post I have done that. To be honest I’m not surprised you’d resort to the dismissive form of comments like your mate Redwood and Vic
Correct, although…
Please do not present rumor or assumption as fact. At most there is a suspicion that the ANC received money from Iran. There is absolutely no proof.
But they have been living off corrupt funding forever….that is a fact.
Yes indeed, this has been proven often but not always
That’s some hard reaching there. I can’t think of an example of an anc scheme being suspected of being dirty and subsequently being proven to be clean. Can you refer us to one?
I do tho think in light of the pastvANC corruption, the sudden recovery from the edge of extreme (100 million was it not) and the ANCs complete and utter silence where the money came from, I think its fair at this point to make assumptions or at very very least be very suspicious.
You can bet your lucky horse. The ANC tells more lies, than truths. Once you are corrupt, their is no limit, its like a cancer, it spreads and disguises itself and mutates, its still cancer and in the end, the body it lives in dies. If that makes any sense. Trust is the glue to life, it is the active ingredient that bonds and holds all relationships. The ANC has been caught out many times, just because they dont take responsibility or acknowledge their guilt, does not make them innocent.
All the effort of trying to stop conflict between Israel and Gaza, shouldn’t minister Pandor do something about the dreadful lives millions of South African citizens are going through. Get your own country liveable then worry about other countries
Israelis were not ordered to stop defending themselves as a sovereign state. They were rather told to be careful as they pomp live bullets in the heads of perpetrators of October 7 barbaric massacre. The ICJ is only expecting Israel to come back in a month time to give a detailed report about how they doing everything to avoid civilian casualties. As for the tunnels built by hamas under grave yards, hospital, schools, kindergartens, IDF has green light to destroy them successfully. Charity begins at home, right? Please address the poverty war that your own people are facing here, instead of staging that stunt at the ICJ. Fix the shacks, and try to end the abject that affect millions of south Africans. End corruption here first.
Posturing.
Mrs Naledi Pandor we solute you for your resoluteness and courage !
You have made SA proud
Agreed! To think in the whole world only ANC stood up for the right thing to do in regards to the Palestinians
I find the RSA Government very hypocritical.
Going to the ICJ for Gaza vs Israel, being very vocal, but when it came to Russia vs Ukraine, they remained “neutral”
Sudan, Mozambique, Nigeria all simmering with war crimes daily….Not a peep….
Abit like the kettle calling the Pot Black. South Africa’s proud compliance with the Omar Bashir event sticks out like a festering sore.
She is giving our money away again.
Seems like more Blah, Blah, Blah from an ANC Politician looking to deflect attention from a failed Government.
Strange how, suddenly, our Government is now big on running to the ICC when they have a history of blatantly ignoring ICC decisions and wanting to withdraw from the ICC when they do not get their own way.
Naledi. If you were more even-handed, we might grant you some credibility. But ongoing murder of civilians in Ukraine obviously doesn’t bother you. Concerning attacks on hospitals, do you perhaps have selective amnesia ? If so , please Google on “Mariupol hospital airstrike”. In our terrible war-mongering world, two wrongs do not make a right but plainly in your book, bombing a hospital to smithereens is allowed since you have had nothing to say about that even though confirmed by your pal Comrade Lavrov if not by the Russian Ministry of Defense: “Absolutely no tasks to hit targets on the ground were accomplished by Russian military aircraft in the area of Mariupol”
Can anyone confirm for me whether Hamas has stopped their bombing? We only hear the one side of the story.
No they keep fighting and bombing daily…..
It’s a sad day when people muddy the waters for political abd ideological agendas. Deliberatley obscuring, forgetting, ommiting, twisting facts. It’s even sadder when politicians allude to using, (I assume) the resources (taxes) of citazens to support organisations linked to terrorism. Sad, sad, sad. Most South africans do not support the views of this government in this area, the upcoming elections will be indicative of this as well.
I think this minister has misinterpreted, conveniently or otherwise for purpose of misleading the millions of non-legal minded people in SA instead of making known the truth of what the ICJ findings actually never said.
Perhaps Pandor and co should simply ask Hamas to surrender and remove the extermination of Israel from their manifesto, in order to stop the fighting. Two faced politicians with the blood of many on their hands if they simply acknowledge the daily carnage in SA under their lack of effective governance.
Good observation.
A Hamas surrender will not stop the fighting, only a negotiated settlement will achieve that goal
Which you will never have with Hamas still in power
Oh please make this person go away. She has no clue.
and you have?
And exactly so did the ANC when they ignored a warrant of arrest from the ICC for Omar Al Bashir. Their memory is very short.
Valid critique
No wonder South Africa is going backwards. We should be looking after our own people instead of spending millions on oversees trips. If only our population new what was going on.
Of course Israel is going to carry on as it was doing before the ICJ ruling. It denied it was committing any acts of genocide and all the ICJ ruling says it’s that Israel mustn’t commit any acts of genocide. It’s not an effective ruling.
We really need to get to the bottom of the allegations that the ANC has benefited financially from the decision made by the South African government (the ANC) to take the ICJ action against Israel. Of course Hamas and Iran didn’t pay South Africa’s legal costs, that was at taxpayer’s expense. But we know the ANC was in serious financial difficulty last year, unable to even pay staff salaries. That difficulty seems to have miraculously abated.
On the contrary, the ruling is indeed effective, it provides for Israel to continue as they have
Again not true, read the whole ruling
Again, very true, read the whole ruling
I have, it specifically calls for Israel “to stop killing members of the group” I.e. Palestinians
No John it doesn’t, read it again, slowly this time
Strange how the ICC is suddenly important. Was not the case when they invited Bashir to S Africa. Hypocrisy!
Pandor was quoted “ “As far as I know the [SA] legal team has not been paid yet”. If they were only being paid on success they may have a problem collecting.
Naledi Pandor is humiliating herself and South Africa. I find it heartbreaking that I have spent most of my life ashamed of our country. Firstly Apartheid, which led white South Africans visiting abroad to pretend to be Australians so as not to assume guilt for the then National Party principals. (which was not agreed to by all citizens) A short period of euphoria in the Nelson Mandela era, followed by even more shame since. The ANC are letting themselves down. The Government greed for money enticing them to comply with any incitements of complicity in order to pocket the financial gains offered – The inability to protect our own population from crime against humanity (our own citizens), unwillingness to allow the law to prevail, civilian murders uncontrolled, disease and starvation among the less privileged, inefficiency in government service, particularly medicine, causing untold suffering, and now : Pres Ramaposa appointing Naledi Pandor to visit Putin’s Russia with support (and probably weapons) to, without provacation, attack Ukraine, a sovereign state, defending itself, which has led to mass casualties. Now we have this accusation against Israel, who are reciprocating for the brutal slaughter of thousands of innocent Israeli citizens, and attempting to ensure that such atrocities can never be repeated. Maybe we misjudged Pres Zuma. He at least left some of the plundered fiscus for minimal maintenance of the infrastructure. Be careful of whom to trust, Mr Ramaposa.
What about the ruling on the immediate and unconditional release of the hostages? Has that already happened?
Regretfully none of the ruling on both sides of the war has been complied with
Wrong, Israel is complying with the ruling
Minister Pandor
77 Murders aday
8 Million people living in shacks
2.1 Million hungry South Africans
11.8 Million people with no reliable water supply
Keeping the lights on and trying to run a business
What an embarressment you and your Cadre ANC are
Is this the same ICC that asked us to arrest Bashir of Sudan ??
Did Pandor really think that Israel was going to comply with the baseless and biased decision conjured up by misinformed ‘legal mind’s who were under directions by their government’s to condemn Israel. What everybody fails to grasp is Israel’s Biblical right to protect and defend their land given to them by God as part of a covenant.
South Africa and its pathetic group of like minded supporters live in a world of cuckoo philosophies denying the real truth. And in the long run this mindset will be to the detriment of continued Western support because of our ANC ‘comrades’!
Daaamn.
That Pandor guy is one ugly Mofo!
@Matthew Quinton: I am no fan the Minister, nor her junket to the ICC, but your comment isn’t civil and it’s completely inappropriate to this forum.
*ICJ
Totally agreed, but it’s still funny and it made it through. When confronted with the standing joke which is the ANC, what’s left to but point and laugh?
Maybe manners and decency?
Exactly. Unfortunately, it’s all in the breeding/genes.
Actually, it’s not funny. Perhaps you need to grow up and start behaving like an adult.
Perhaps.. but until that day.. woop woop!!
PS – I am impressed that you read THIS far down in the comments AND then came back to check your comment again.. lol!
No mention of the Suprise invasion of Israel by Hamas by some critics? No mention of the civilians that were killed or taken as hostages from Israel by Hamas? No Mention that Israel should not have been allowed to defend its civilian population against Hamas? No mention of the seeming support for Hamas from two other terrorist groups. I only seem to be hearing a one-sided point of view, which seems to support terrorist organizations? Did Britain tell the citizens of Bremen to evacuate before bombing in WWII? Did Germany tell Londoners to evacuate before the blitz? I don’t think so. I did hear on several news networks that Israel gave a week’s warning that it was going to try to illuminate the perpetrators of the Israel invasion, Hamas. I also heard and saw videos from several news sources at the time, that when attacked Hamas had built tunnels and strong holds under schools and hospitals in readiness for a reprisal? There were some claims that this was purposely done, so that Hamas could claim that only innocent civilians were being attacked???? Could this fact give some of the reasons for the support of Hamas by terrorist supporting groups and wrongly claim genocide? I hope that our new incoming government is less supportive of terrorist groups and countries that appear to be pushing for WWIII. I also hope that they do not ignore reprimanding those that have instigated the recent conflicts! Let’s face it Russia, invaded the Ukraine, the Ukraine did not invade Russia and Hamas invaded Israel (before Israel retaliated). Hey, has honesty now gone out of the question?
Pandor clearly does not understand the ruling of the Court
Clearly so.
Neither it seems do you
Wrong, you’re the one it escapes
Please give us your detailed understanding of the ruling, not just your two favorite lines re no actual cease fire and an instruction for Hamas to release the hostages. There is much more to the ruling than just that.
Well John, you’ve just said it yourself, no need to elaborate further, I think you’ve finally got it
Mrs Pandor and therefore the whole ANC government are hypocrites: rather put your energy in rebuilding your own country called South Africa. Here the situation is pressing because of the slow genocide put into practice with the people of SA being the subjects/victims.
Russia also ignored ICJ ruling with the war in Ukraine?
Methinks all the comments below are only adding fuel to a dying fire. Stop talking and just vote out the rot.
Blood libels targeting Jews go back many centuries, if not milleniums. First, the church, then Russia’s tsars, then the communists, and now – the “progressive” left. Not to be outdone, Pandor has reinvented a new, refurbished blood libel! Who would have guessed that this excuse for a foreign minister could have been so inventive.
“Blood libel” – such an overly dramatic term used by the world’s most entitled cry babies. Ag shame. The world has no place for racists, sexists or Zionists. Voetsek drek!
Gerhard whilst I agree that the use of “blood libel” is overly dramatic and often used to deflect criticism and garner sympathy the rest of your comment is excessive and unpleasant to say the least.
Whereas “genocide” is not an overly dramatic term in a conflict where 2 civilians have been killed for every combatant?
Tell me is there place in your world for jihad? Is there room in your definition of racists for the hatred of Jews and the desire to eliminate them from the world?
Israelis are the antithesis of entitled. They have come back from the brink to create a prosperous, powerful and thriving state through hard work and determination and fierce independence. If only the same could have been said of the Palestinians who have repeatedly rejected statehood and have made nothing of almost 20 years since Israel pulled out of Gaza, other than to choose to be governed by the very racists and sexists you seem to abhor.
Entitlement is to reject all offers of autonomy and independence and instead rely on handouts – then use the handouts to stockpile weapons and build tunnels. Entitlement is to want it ALL without compromise.
If you want to better grasp the monster that is being fought, and the refusal to give up on the hostages, read the article currently on the BBC website “Israelis tell British MPs of evidence of Hamas sexual violence”. Then ask yourself what your position would be if it were your daughter or wife?
You are quite wrong that the world has no place for Zionists. The world has Israel. No other country has ever been able to offer the Jewish people safety. It has simply never been possible and Jews have been persecuted endlessly. Israel in necessary.
I can only assume your were responding to a different post
“Voetsek drek”. Really? How did this drivel pass muster?
Oh… like some banana republic that didn’t arrest the Al-Basheer fellow for what was it again? Genocide? Crimes against humanity type thing
The UN-managed UNRWA are HAMAS indoctrinators. Why must anyone in their right mind contribute to a terrorist organization to continue to contribute to instability in Israel? Instead of building tunnels, they should cultivate their produce from the land. This is not in the interest of the Iranian Sabre rattlers. They just want to sew hate instead of producing their sustenance. There is a VAST difference between seeking democratic freedom and living in a dictatorship of terrorists. Naledi Pandor sides with terrorists and by extension Iran. Who is paying the South African Government to act on their behalf.
Thankfully the majority of the biggest donors have withdrawn funding for UNWRA
Pandor is pushing the Israeli subject because if she didn’t they would loose the money that Iran is paying the ANC to keep up the rhetoric against Israel.
That is pure assumption
And most likely
Possible but not fact and therefore is libelous until proven.
Hahahaha. In the same vein your claims of Israel not abiding by the ruling are nothing more than libelous
The murder rate per capita in South Africa is: 45 per 100,000 for the 2022/23 period… We are not “at War” … How does one, like myself, go to the ICC to lodge a complaint against the current regime?
Would that we could but complaints can only come from nations not from individuals
I always find it strange how we let Bashir out the country ignoring an international arrest warrant but here we are crying about this…
I may have missed it but is she complaining that Hammas have not released any hostages? If not, then her claims are misguided at best.
Pandering to panderverse
Naledi Pandor should stop poking her nose in the business of other countries and get her own house in order first. How many people die in SA everyday? How many people live in appalling conditions in this country? How many people go to bed hungry in South Africa? Really Naledi, take a look in your own back yard before you start shouting the odds at what is happening in Gaza! Have you shown compassion to the Uighyars (sp) of Myanmar, to the people of Ukraine, who are suffering horribly every day?? You totally disregard that and instead, devote all of your attention to a terrorist group like Hamas! What is it with the ANC government? But I forget, elections are coming up and you will do anything in your desperation to garner votes and to stay in power. You can try and pull the wool over the eyes of many South African citizens, but many people have become wise to your underhandedness and hopefully this will reflect in the polls. to Your methods are
despicable. The only thing left to say, is that the United States has got your measure and are quietly going about pushing you into a corner that you cannot get out of. Watch this space. I am ashamed to be a South African.
You significantly over rate our importance, The US does not really care what we think, say or do.
Agreed, trying to score international political points to further the BRICS Ageneda with their cornies in the Middle East.
Hope we don’t suffer the consequences of mishandled diplomatic and trade relations with Israel and entire western world.
Of course we will, kiss AGOA and a huge chunk of FDI goodbye
Hope we don’t suffer the consequences of mishandled diplomatic and trade relations with Israel and entire western world.
Well done Naledi Pandor and to our government for the incredible bravery to fight against the genocide of Palestinians in Gaza.
I had my misgivings of the ANC because of the corruption, nepotism and poor service delivery, but your bravery has reaffirmed my commitment to the ANC and CR.
Viva, South Africa, Viva.
Hahahaha
Fayzal this one positive action we have seen from the ANC government is not a good reason for a voting decision. Look at the other side of the scale which is weighed down heavily by corruption, theft, mismanagement and a very selective belief in supporting human rights.
what a bunch of hipocrits our own government is
Stop making a noise. Your ANC has destroyed this country and has resulted in massive debt and 42% plus unemployment. The day you and your useless commie cronies begin to pay back the money and begin to serve jail sentences for all the theft and corruption you may claim the right to shout the odds about Israel. I still her nothing regarding the 8 million displaced persons in Sudan. And to crown it all our spineless president invites one of the maniacal war loads for a visit. Looked like Mr. Rammie was having a really good time with this killer. Reminds me of the visit by Russia’s foreign minister. He too was wined and dined. The ANC are truly the bottom of a bottomless black pit.
Shame! If she, and a number of other political commentators, had the capacity to read and understand the ruling of the ICJ correctly, they would be less disappointed that nothing has changed. There was never a genocide and so telling Israel not to commit genocide changed nothing. She is also predictably quiet on the terrorists not releaseing hostages as recommended by the court.
Please read the full ICJ ruling before making comments of this nature
Repeating yourself over and over again will still not make the comment true or relevant
This from the man who does nothing but push the “Isarael can do no wrong” agenda. Perhaps you should read the full ruling, this time with an open mind.
Where did I say that John? Clearly you like to fabricate agendas and what people have and haven’t said. I have merely pointed out the ICJ ruling doesn’t tell Israel to do anything that it’s not already doing – something you clearly are unable to see or interpret
The less she says the smarter she appears
I totally abhor her comments. The HAMAS organisation have not released the hostages as ordered by the court.
South Africa is the one going to suffer in the end. Our country is in financial trouble besides this ridiculous charge. Who is paying the piper here????
Yes Hamas have not listened to the court but neither has Israel
It’s actually quite frightening n sickening reading the comments – what kind of people we live amongst? Bottom line is…. A whole people , mainly women’s n children are getting bombed, killed, starved, mistreated, tortured… hospitals, universities, places of worship destroyed. And someone had the guts trying to stop this n call on humanity n all you can do is look for faults in a person or political party …. Have you ever only for a minute, imagined you are living this nightmare… while you sipping your cappuccino sitting at your pool, mh? There shouldn’t even have been the necessity to go to the ICJ or ICC – if humanity had been put above power n greed plus international rules n regulations adhered to. Most of the things Hamas was accused of n what Israel took to justify this massacre by has been proven to be false plus the IDF causing havoc n death on Oct 7th. And speaking about Putin… everybody jumped to accuse him right away at the beginning of the invasion …. Why have those same countries not been accusing Netanyahu & his cabinet of the same n we are still watching people getting massacred n deprived of basic human needs n rights in Palestine after 3 months ?
Hamas is certainly not innocent in this war however you raise some very valid points.
Interesting perspective… I’m sure those with Go Pro’s live streaming and posting to social media, sending videos from to telegram channels, to their relatives and victims relatives whilst beaming with glee after butchering civilians, women and children.
I’ll bet those Hamas terrorists may disagree with your views on who were the perpetrators on Oct 7. I ask you , where’s your humanity ?
Wow, just Wow! Hamas actions of 7 Oct false??? That’s insane
Why does Pandor always target Israel, instead of using her contact with HAMAS to return the hostages as ordered by the ICJ?
Then no ceasefire will be necessary, and the war will stop.
Regretfully the war will not stop with the release of the hostages, Netanhayu has already said that absolutely nothing but the eradication of Hamas will stop the war.
The key word being “Hamas”.
The eradication of Hamas will not stop the war either, at best it will pause whilst a Hamas replacement comes into being. Only a negotiated settlement will bring lasting peace.
Strangely Pandor has not kicked up such a fuss when Russia invaded its neighbour resulting in many, many more Ukrainians dying and still dying on a daily basis. Russia acts of brutal aggression are aimed at an attempt at obliterating Ukraine. Why did not SA take Russia to the ICJ? Double standards?…
Exactly 💯
Actually Pandor did originally denounce the Russian invasion and then backtracked after she was called to task by the ANC.
As any good kleptocommie would. Mansions, X5s and VIP protection posses aren’t free after all.
This woman is grandstanding in the world domain for her own purpose, while in her own house the real genocide is happening… never mind those sleeping without food, water, electricity and shelter. But that’s not going to get her the political milage she seeks, the mere mention of Palestinians and the milage adds up… they are milking it now because very soon they will whennout of a job, need to start using the stolen millions from the state capturing debacle they still deny they had anything to do with.
Exactly, cause in her world, Denial is a river in Egypt.
Naladi Panor has the gall to call out Israel while at home her ANC cadres have allowed law and order to disappear. Women are getting raped children stand on street corners begging murder goes on unabated corruption thrives and infrastructure crumbles. Our people are jobless homeless. The world must wake up and take a long look at South African and all its communist and terrorist friends as this court case try’s to take the focus off all our South African problems courtesy of the ruling party
The face of the Hamas PR machine
As opposed to the Netanyahu PR machine?
Bob F – 1st February 2024 at 18:30
Does Naledi speak for the ANC or all of South Africa? When Putin started his war she had a lot to say against Putin but was immediately shut up by her ANC masters. Perhaps she will again be put in her place when Ramaphosa and his henchmen come to their senses.
Test
Why is south africa so interested about Isreal and Gaza war…but ignoring there domestic problems
A very good question
Money- Iran is paying them to do it, the anc needs money for their election campaign
First we grovelled for Russian support, then we kowtied for Chinese support, now we being captured by the Middle East.
The minister is saying nothing about the court telling Hamas to free the hostages.
This is the pot calling the kettle black, she must look in the mirror to see who really is causing genocide and who ignored the courts when it suits them, she and her party are the last to open their mouths about killing, poverty, water, electricity, they must look inwards to their own country and keep their nose or of others business.
Pandor, the same has the ANC has ignored the recommendations of the Commission of Inquiry into State Capture. Hypocrisy at its best.
I see Ukraine did not do quite as well in their case.
Here’s a deal.
We give Ukraine South African lawyers and they send us engineers who can keep a power grid reliable in a war zone.
That’d be a good deal I reckon… for SA anyway, Ukraine not so much
Ukraine maintained a higher energy availability factor while their generation fleet was under direct attack by a major foreign military power than the deployees of the glorious liberation movement at ESKOM achieved at the same time. I’m sure there’s a lesson in there somewhere.
The ANC doesn’t give a stuff for their own people at home. The poverty, lack of healthcare, eduction, jobs, etc. Why on earth are they so obsessed with what is going on on a God forsaken little patch of desert half way across the world? It boggles the mind. Oh wait a sec. Could it be a nice cash injection from a foreign power?
ANC doing its classic magic trick before elections… “Look at what we doing over there, so you don’t see what is happening here…”
Please take the Log out of your eye, before getting the splinter from their eye.
how much was spent meddling in others affairs, could that money not be better utilised at home? anc has a beef with israel cos they traded with the ‘evil’ apartheid regime
BTW so did Iran. They sold oil to the old regime. 🤣🤣. There’s hypocrisy for you. Oh wait they are Muslim so it’s OK.
ANC are a disgusting, shameless, godless criminal syndicate. My concern is that so many fellow South Africans identify with them.
When you have a history of necklacing your own people, presiding over a country with a woman violently raped every half a minute 24/7 for 30 years of ANC government… murder and lawlessness with minor consequence… then it’s no shame and no problem to identify and support Hamas and the Palestinians at large. Same kind.
You know humangl your comments can only be ignorance or heartless.
What is happening in Palestine is the brutal war crimes driven by apartheid in modern times.
I cannot be surprised if you only heard of Palestine after October 7, October 7 it was Hamas.
Ask yourself if it was Hamas on October 7 why are 30000 Palestinians dead 70% women and children including premature babies?
The ANC made a lot of sacrifices on injustices against black people, some of them resulting in mass poverty on black people.
I am talking about the ANC not individuals working for the ANC.
The majority of people voting for the ANC understand the organisations charter and what it stands.
The same humanity towards Palestine is the one that they used during the transition from apartheid to democracy to avert a civil war.
Naledi Pandor is the effective minister of foreign affairs and she is truthfully telling the former colonizers and apartheid sympathisers that the story needs to change, what can be wrong with that?
ANC individuals have been engrossed in corruption and not performing in their duties.
That is not what the ANC stands for.
The EFF talks to the same issues neglected by those individuals making voters to be spoiled for choice.
The DA talks left and moves right hence their reaction to the Russian invasion in Ukraine by going to a war zone to support Ukraine.
Comes the military invasion in Palestine by Israel, their view changes, Israel the invader and occupier has a right to defend itself.
Inflating the numbers on your own I see
Pandor’s comments neatly slots in with the new ANC maskarovka of ” regime change ”
probably being organized by the FSB with Iranian funding. Hold onto your hats going into the election.
Naledi Pandor ‘s input on this question might carry much greater weight had she, and the government she represents, spoken out strongly in favour of the same ICJ’s ruling in March 2022 calling for an immediate end to Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine. Instead, SA said nothing in support of this institution, and has continued to say nothing, as Russia bombs, rockets, occupies and annexes in defiance of the ICJ.
Is this the same anc that wanted to leave the ICC because it was a “Western” court? The same anc that didn’t execute the ICC arrest warrant for Albashir and Putin? Now its all about following ICC rules and regulations… How blatantly hypocritical!!!
Yip, same lot.
Hysterical, if it wasn’t so idiotic.
Pandor should keep her mouth shut and get off the fence, she parties up to just about every despot country and even visited Hamas in Palestine. She should be charged with treason for he stupid remarks.
“She said she hadn’t checked with the ANC on whether Iran was providing it with finance,” ??? A foreign minister, high up in the ANC in the know?
South Africa was correct in bringing up this case, their justification is sound, regardless of motivation. A good act is not diminished by the questionability of its motivations, A.C Greyling dealt with this issue in his philosophical works.
Now that the court has ruled, the country should sit back, refocus on domestic issues and understand something that has been clear for a while. Nobody cares.
Gaza will burn and Israel will continue its existence.
The seat of the world’s power is caucasian and only issues that affect caucasian nations matter to the world. And while non-caucasian nations self consume and extend begging bowls to the caucasian global north, nothing will change.
Cynical but true, over 400 comments to this story and hardly an ounce of agreement anywhere
Calm down everyone:
In a few short months this person Pandor will have to be put out to pasture.
Retire with the ministerial comforts she so deserves, not.
What a blight on our politic.
Pet you are so wrong it can be someone else either from the ANC or EFF the effects will be the same.
I mention these 2 parties because even if they don’t win outrightly they still resonate with the poor populations who don’t live in western cape or Sandton.
A lot of complain about Pandor neglecting domestic issues, perhaps it’s good because a lot of people saying that are not aware that real domestic issues are around land and economic gap between certain ethnic group based on previous previlleges offered to certain groups and denied to others.
Believe me when those issues start to be dealt with there will be parties running to the same institutions and crying genocide against them.
Pity the rate in which modern Europe decides who these institutions must prosecute and who they must not is rendering them useless.
Europe colonized countries led by people of colour and took their resources, they continued to date to financially colonize those countries South Africa not an exception.
With BRICS becoming a reality the west and Europe will reck havoc, by trying to weaken and dismantle BRICS.
We all stand to benefit from BRICS but Europe will loose.
We need to unite and create a better life for all.
No party is immune to corruption that is why it is fruitless to judge the ANC on corruption and ignore what they are doing on human rights and exposing the western hypocrites endangering the whole world.
Nothing is more hypocritical than a pro-Palestinian wannabe. Especially if you’re black. And as a black person, know that the Arab word for a black is abu – which means slave. Also, you should know that Arabs generally regard blacks as the lowest form of life.
Who put a stop to the Arab slave trading of blacks in the late 19th century? Those horrible Western Colonials, that’s who. The same people who brought roads, telecoms, electricity, fuel from coal, dams and railways to you so that you could destroy them, the same people who showed you governance, registration of births and deaths, an economy that was the biggest and strongest in Africa, the lap-top that you write your comments on, the education that enables you to write – so much, yet all you can do is bitch and gripe in your incompetence and inability to build on what you’ve been given. Pathetic bunch of moaners.
Unfortunately, stating facts does not bring people with indoctrinated anti-Western enemy images to their understanding; on the contrary, you will be accused of not wanting to get rid of your acquired colonial prejudices or even accused of racism. Some will say: “What do we need the infrastructure and the things that we didn’t have during apartheid either?”
True facts don’t involve insults my little education taught me that, seemingly your superior education forgot to teach you morals.
I can teach you for free.
They’re not insults, just plain good old facts
Dear Kenneth Fakude. Even if you feel personally attacked or insulted, you should consider true facts without bias, for your own benefit, this is the only way to move forward. The way you dish out in your comments, you have to be able to withstand some reactions without immediately retreating into a victim’s shell or responding with insults again. With your simple polarization between the evil “West” and the good “Global South” you insult millions of people in the “Western” states who are convinced of their democratic standards and who regularly elect governments/parties that they expect Attacks on these standards from within and outside must be repelled. Many of these people, who live on the poverty line by Western standards, are very concerned about the poor people in the “Global South” and regularly donate to international aid organizations, knowing full well that a significant portion ends up in the pockets of corrupt politicians there and not those of them need it. You may now counter me by saying that I am repeating the propaganda of “Western” media, but believe me, I know from my own experience that such an assumption would correspond exactly to the mantra of left-wing extremist protagonists in the “West” who themselves have nothing to do with democratic standards. However, I see you, dear Kenneth Fakude, on a remarkable path because, despite all your dismay, you do not contradict the facts stated by Rod H MacLeod. I wish you a nice rest of the weekend.
Pandor is clearly ignoring her diet. Perhaps they can get a court order for that !
It would be funny if people were not dying.
Attacking the person not the facts takes you out of the game.
Isn’t genocide also being committed in Russia, and on a huge scale? She is saying nothing about that! With war, woman and children are bound to be killed, just the same as in Englands 2nd world war, and Russia’s war on the Ukraine, killing thousands of men, women and children. Ukrainians have had their country blasted to pieces.
The difference is, Palestinians put a lot of their military structures in civilian areas, so more civilians are being killed.
Russia invades innocent Ukraine in the quest for more power and control in that region. The uber hypocrisy of the ANC government’s silence is deafening.
If you can follow through all American allied relationships end in disaster.
I was against the invasion of Ukraine from day one.
America and Europe pulled Ukraine to take a stance relying on European allies.
Then they were given weapons to do and not do certain things to prevent escalation, those were not the requirements of the Frontline.
I wish all the occupied nations freedom from these draconian acts of greed by superpowers some posing as allies.
The pro Netanyahu commentators are still thrashing away at this story and we are approaching 500 comments.
However nothing to speak of regarding this DM report
“Biden imposes sanctions on Israeli settlers accused of West Bank violence”
Perhaps not such an easy target?
Hogwash! Scoring points for the forthcoming elections. I mean ……. everything in SA is done by the book and in terms of the international law ,,,,, not so?
There is nothing the ICJ can do. When Hamas escalated by doing what they did, Israel has to wipe them out, this is not more than a question of Israels survival. Hamas only did what they did to rally Islamic fundamentalism to their cause. If Israel capitulates, they signal their weakness to the rest of the fanatics that wish them to be destroyed. This is now a show of strength, ANC is trying to capitalize at gaining the Muslim votes in SA by making them think they can make a difference.
Ony the Dead have seen the end of war!!!! “Plato”
The main issue is that South Africa is blatantly ignoring the ICJ ruling to release all Israeli hostages
The age old tactic of…diverting attention from the colossal failing that is South Africa at the hands of absolute buffoons. Look in the mirror and out your window Nalendi Pandor and be more concerned about what you see there, rather than what Israel is seeming not doing.
Its fortunately USA support Israel for wrong reasons.