MIDDLE EAST CRISIS
Pretoria believes ICJ will deliver riposte to US legislators who expressed ‘disgust’ at SA’s case against Israel
International Relations and Cooperation Minister Naledi Pandor will travel to The Hague on Friday to hear the court’s decision.
The South African government believes the International Court of Justice’s ruling on Friday will deliver the right riposte to 210 US legislators who expressed “disgust” this week at South Africa accusing Israel of genocide before the court.
It announced on Thursday that International Relations and Cooperation Minister Naledi Pandor would be heading a South African delegation to The Hague to hear the court’s decision on whether it will order Israel to take provisional measures such as a ceasefire to halt the killing in Gaza.
The 210 legislators from the US House of Representatives – 146 Republicans and 64 Democrats – asked US Secretary of State Antony Blinken to denounce South Africa for bringing the “ grossly unfounded case against Israel… accusing Israel of genocide and asking the court to order Israel to immediately halt its military efforts in Gaza.
“We share the administration’s position that Israel has the right to defend itself against Hamas terror and appreciate the strong statement of National Security Council spokesman John Kirby that the South African application is ‘meritless, counterproductive, and completely without any basis in fact whatsoever’”.
Clayson Monyela, spokesperson for the Department of International Relations and Cooperation (Dirco), responded: “The court outcome on Friday will be a response to these lawmakers.
“Why would lawmakers feel ‘disgust’ at South Africa using legal means and a judicial process to decide a contentious issue? Are the US lawmakers indirectly expressing their own disdain for legal processes?”
Read more in Daily Maverick: South Africa expects ICJ judgment on Gaza emergency measures on Friday
The ICJ said on Wednesday it would announce its response on Friday to South Africa’s request for the court to order provisional measures, mainly an immediate ceasefire by Israel in Gaza as well as greater humanitarian access to the embattled territory.
The court will announce its decision at 2pm South African time.
Any measures the court orders will be provisional pending until its final determination on whether Israel is committing genocide in Gaza in violation of the 1948 Geneva Conventions, to which both Israel and South Africa are signatories. This final determination could take a year or more, so provisional measures are designed to preserve the situation in the meantime.
Monyela also said: “The International Court of Justice (ICJ) has announced that it will deliver its order on Friday, 26 January 2024 on the request for the indication of provisional measures submitted by South Africa in a genocide case against Israel.”
Pandor would attend, representing South Africa.
Read more in Daily Maverick: South Africa’s divisive ICJ case against Israel has already critically altered its foreign policy space
Read more in Daily Maverick: SA’s ICJ action — the critical problem of a populist foreign policy
Read more in Daily Maverick: Israel-Palestine War
“On 29 December 2023, South Africa filed a lawsuit with the ICJ requesting an injunction against Israel on the grounds that Israel’s attacks on Gaza violate the Genocide Convention.
“South Africa is requesting that the ICJ grant interim injunctions, including that Israel immediately cease its military operations in Gaza, take reasonable measures to prevent the genocide of Palestinians, ensure that the displaced return to their homes and have access to humanitarian assistance, including adequate food, water, fuel, medical and hygiene supplies, shelter and clothing, take necessary steps to punish those involved in the genocide and preserve the evidence of genocide.” DM
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Yeah….even if the court ludicrously orders only one side, Israel, to lay down its arms, there is zero chance that it will comply.
This is nothing but grotesque hypocrisy and posturing by a failed pariah regime, the cANCer, and a gigantic embarrassment to SA, which itself is becoming a pariah state.
It may well be that South Africa’s ICJ application was not in its strategic interests. It’s easier to side with a bully than to oppose bullying after all.
However, that should not be conflated with what the right thing to do is in terms of the law as a signatory to the convention on genocide or morally given that there is a plausible case for genocide. So while you say that the case is a gigantic embarrassment to South Africa, UN human rights experts and many others have welcomed the ICJ genocide hearings.
The “grossly unfounded case against Israel”, as the US will have us believe is, in fact, plausible. Which is why Biden and Blinken are being sued for (A) violation of duty to prevent genocide (B) Complicity in genocide.
As for SA being a pariah state, clearly that’s nowhere near being true. But even were that the case, I would have no problem calling it out as I did when the government snuck Al-Bashir out of the country or when it threatened to withdraw from the ICC. Clearly this argument is just intended to sidestep the merits of the case.
I expect that you’re right about the Israel refusing to comply with any order granted by the court. Israel has said as much. Ironically, because it would then be explicitly ignoring and undermining norms relating to international law – laws relating to genocide no less! – it would by definition become a pariah state (more than it already is).
Perfectly summed up my view too.
Eloquently put.
Indeed!
Deluded. The lot of them from Mdm Pandor down.
Look at what he says.
““Why would lawmakers feel ‘disgust’ at South Africa using legal means and a judicial process to decide a contentious issue? Are the US lawmakers indirectly expressing their own disdain for legal processes?”
Misrepresentatiin and straw man arguments may work in the ANC but it doesn’t travel well.
I agree Syd, Pandor and her sidekick, Pandor have always been vehemently against Israel, antisemitic perhaps slightly less certain.
Should not the Justice Minister have been going, not Pandor, though both out of their depth.
Panderer Pandor announced the killing and burning of babies was fake news, after the videos were shown to the international press, she did not even have the guts to apologise, but what’s the use, what she said could not be undone.
Oh, Dangor, thesidekick
The ICJ can’t and won’t do anything to Israel
You miss the point of all this entiley. Seems to me this maybe long range strategic calculation by SA. The long and short is that the Palestine question will be resolved in an American election. What an ICJ ruling will do is give moral impetus to young Americans who already vehemently disapprove of Israel’s conduct as evidenced by e.g the turmoil on US campuses. When this momentum reaches critical mass, the political class will naturally shift allegiance which will in turn threaten unconditional funding and military aid to Israel. With this in doubt, Israel will be a sitting duck in that region. Then the real crap starts.
The only thing SA will realistically achieve will be getting booted out of AGOA and losing what little FDI it gets
No, the “real crap” as you put it will be that the SA action will give the US Presidency back to Trump. Then SA had better be aware of sanctions, even if unofficial.
“No retreat no surrender, victory is certan”
…for whom?
…and as victory is a subjective term it would help if you could define exactly what “victory” means to you in this context.
Yes, absolutely, Hamas will be destroyed
Must be a reference to Israel, no?
Hoorah! Another all-expenses junket paid for by whom? One can only speculate – Iran, Qatar, Russia?
How about our politicians staying home for awhile, tending to our sinking ship….
On what basis is that comment made?
No, no, no! The junket was paid for by the South African tax payer, not by any of the ANC friends/sponsors.
Yappy yorkie?
If you are unable to understand why our citizens prioritize our own country you really should consider permanently moving to the country you care most about as you may be of more value there.
Samar – do you know what a schmuck is?
Samar has a new one word answer! Yay!!!! Bill is right. Pandor and all her cronies should be serving the people of SA by focusing their attention on the mess that they have managed to make of SA instead of serving their Iranian paymasters.
Regardless of the outcome of the case, the ANC has placed us in a terrible position. The US is still unhappy with us because of the ANC’s irrational need to pander to Putin. Add this new insult and it doesnt bode well for our continued relations. Naturally, we can forget about any future relations with Israel as well. There are quite literally only negative possible outcomes from this pointless grandstanding.
Only about 70% of Israel’s population, maybe less, is actually Jewish…the rest Arab.
DM – Please moderate. This language is unacceptable.
So we must neglect the innocent dying in numbers to please America and Israel?if it was your family being slaughtered will you follow your very noble suggestion.
It is wrong to depend.
Over 27000 people were killed in South Africa between April 2022 and May 2023 – and we are not at war with anyone. Why is our government not prioritising this instead of getting involved with Israel and Palestine?
If you are unable to understand why our citizens prioritize our own country you really should consider permanently moving to the country you care most about as you may be of more value there.
It would require initiative and brains – something money can’t buy.
Quite R0utine for ANC grandees to glibly predict a judgment in line with their own expectations. My own prediction is that they will cry “foul” – and roll out a myriad conspiracy theories – if and when the Court recommends provisional measures which are well short of what they applied for.
In the world of realpolitik, who on earth would choose to side with Hamas against the United States of America?
AGOA’s renewal hangs in the balance…the fallout of this policy choice will be massive and punish generations of unborn South Africans.
The allegation is that this choice was made by the ANC due to substantial monetary incentivization (prior to a crucial election)…judge for yourself whether this is true.
The safeguarding of AGOA is a cowardly argument. Is that what we are as South Africans? Are we so weak we’ll side with somone so we don’t get punished?
Well as South Africans our track record is that of siding with, protecting and coddling terrorists, genocidal maniacs, war mongers and human rights abusers.
Do you understand the term, “realpolitik”, Paul?
I am sure that the hungry children of those workers that lose their jobs (=ZAR50B+ p/a in exports) due to AGOA not being renewed will understand my “cowardly argument”, even if you fail to do so.
The main SA benefactors under AGOA are the fruit and agriculural exporters in the Western Cape. The ANC couldn’t care less.
Why does the Minister and entourage need to be at the Hague at taxpayers’ expense? Surely the decision will be given in writing. And in any event SA has an ambassador who is capable of attending.
The number of civilians killed in this war equals 8 months of the official daily murder rate in SA. Yet the ANC spend untold millions on this appeal to the international courts while forgetting about their own people at home. The ANC has done nothing to sort out a corrupt police force that has not addressed violent crime here. I think this stupid quest is most likely an attempt to make them look good on the international stage.
The ANC has not spent anything. The taxpayers are paying for it. The money Naledi Pandor’s ‘boeties’ paid the government to be their postman all went to their own pockets.
SA (read ANC) has asked the ICJ to order Israel to cease fire in Gaza but what about Hamas which has been attacking Israel for a number of years ? No Cease fire for them? In any event Hamas has never adhered to any cease fires in the past. I have to add another whatabout: SA has taken this stance against a tiny country in the Middle East but has ignored the unprovoked genocidal attack by Russia on Ukraine – what about that? Why dont the ANC take that to the ICJ?
I am not and never have been an ANC supporter. The people who actually stood up at the hearing are some of South Africa’s best legal minds with no ANC affiliation. I am proud of them. I’m not proud of the bigots that seem to dominate the discourse here. I try to remind myself there are a lot of good peopie in SA, despite the absolute bull that is spouted by many on this forum.
Those legal minds were being paid lots of taxpayer’s money to represent their client, the odious ANC.
Murderers and rapists also get lawyers to defend them in court.
One thing about lawyers, there’s always an opposite opinion and cash is king! I do agree that those there at the ICJ are not necessarily ANC members
That’s why its a complete farce
Paul, you are very selective. What about Russia in the Ukraine , the situation in Iran and Yemen, and many other human right abuses. Why do your ANC friends not raise these issues at the IJC? Also I am sure you are aware that the legal fraternity has an obligation to argue to the case for which they are briefed, no matter what their personal feelings which is why my granddaughter with a Masters degree in Human Rights Law has kept out of litigation.. Many years ago an eminent SA told me that he could convincingly argue both sides of a particular case!!
Looking forward to hearing the judgment and the facts & reasoning supporting it. I trust that the judges will take all the relevant issues into account and that an informed and sensible judgment will be delivered. There seems to be a complete shortage of minds that can process that Israel v Hamas is a complex situation with innocent suffering on both sides and people often having only bad choices. Blind, partisan support seems to be the order of the day.
Well said
Well said indeed. Rationality and, especially, compassion, is sadly in short supply these days.
Not sure why we need to pay for Ms Pandor to travel to the Hague? When a court judgment is handed down a junior legal representative with right of appearance usually attends to note the judgment.
If the ICJ does not give the order South Africa appears to be expecting, ie ordering an immediate ceasefire and total withdrawal by Israel (the ICJ can’t order Hamas to do anything!), will the ANC government accept that as a properly considered judgment of the court? Or are we going to hear rhetoric about how the USA, Israel, the UK and EU influenced the governments of the countries who have judges on the court to side with Israel?
I suspect the order of the ICJ will be a weak middle of the road type order to the effect that Israel must please not carry out any acts of genocide in Gaza. Israel will agree that it won’t and also say that what it’s been doing isn’t genocide and both sides will claim a victory and the current status quo will simply remain. With South Africa the massive economic loser with a R1tn of foreign investment pulled out and very cool relations with the USA,the EU and the UK going forward.
But at least the ANC’s coffers have miraculously filled up! Enough to properly contest the upcoming general election in South Africa. Pity though that the ANC’s new Iranian friends won’t compensate South Africa for the loss to it’s economy over this. Also a pity the ANC didn’t have the same degree of moral fortitude to tell China to get stuffed over the Dalai Lama issue.
One can’t help but think that the fact that Naledi Pandor is a Muslim with a self interest, that once again South Africa is being led down a self centered dangerous path to self destruction
Agreed
With all the gesturing for or against Israelis or Palestinians, I have yet to read one article which relates to history, ie. if the Jewish people have been around in the promised land as told in the book of Genesis of Prehistory (maybe 6000 years) or even 1800 to 1300 BC, where were the Palestinians? What is their history?? This has never been aired. The world over of today is full of death with hypocrisy and yet the center of all of this is the Israelis and Palestinians? No thought of other people.
Well gene analysis of a sample of Israeli Jews and Palestinians ( 2010) found for about 40 % have a common ancestors . So both have the 6000 year history. Just one lot remained in the land and others either left of expelled by romans.
That is a very good point, and anyone ready to confront their own prejudices will find a wealth of information out there on the topic.
Are they not all Semites, Jews and Palestinian, most of the latter becoming Moslem, by force, around the 7th or 8th century.
Hi Mr Monyela,
In the interests of legal balance please take Russia to the ICJ and Hamas to the ICC. Make it snappy.
I don’t disagree with them taking Israel to the Hague, but fully agree that if we are going to stand up for victims in Palestine, we should be doing so wherever we see it happening. Russia’s invasion of and war-related atrocities including forced removal of children in the Ukraine SURELY meets Geneva Convention violations, neh South Africa?
Naladi Pandor aligns herself to a terrorist organization like Hamas instead of worrying about South Africa’s educational chaos. She states she sees similarities between Apartheid and the war in Gaza. Firstly she was educated in Botswana and UK. Secondly when did South Africa assault its Neighbours by shooting missiles into their country raping woman and murdering children or does our Minister think that is all ok in the name of freedom,
23rd September 1998, Operation Boleas – Lesotho
Don’t worry ANC I am totally disgusted with your ICJ action especially in-light of your pal Putin’s invasion of Ukraine and the murder of thousands and your mouth is tight shut – you are hypocrites of the highest order – 80 % of the people that voted for you are starving in your own country and you do not care –
What did the ANC supply to Russia in Dec 2022 when the LadyR docked at Simonstown under cover of darkness?
Neither SA or Pandor could ‘hit’ anything other than our pockets or themselves on a regular basis!! Total hypocrisy and once again pandering to the evil partners in Brics!
Does “Pretoria” now have a say? Who is she/he/etc?
If Naledi Pandour is so passionate about stopping the loss of life in Gaza why doesnt
she also talk to Hamas and ask them to stop shooting rockets and killing and brutalizing innocent civilians. If they agree and let the hostages go the israelis will stop the war immediately.
I would say fat chance of any of that happening.
Just wondering. Why does pandor have to be there in person? Will that change any ruling? Are we again having to pay for flights, etc?
“It announced on Thursday that International Relations and Cooperation Minister Naledi Pandor would be heading a South African delegation to The Hague to hear the court’s decision on whether it will order Israel to take provisional measures such as a ceasefire to halt the killing in Gaza.” WHY? Waste of tax payers money. Time to feed.
Shopping on expenses ?
Only a Zionist , will support another Zionist, I am more proud of my country now than ever before, why don’t all you DA , Muslim haters leave our beloved country and go live in Israel. We are peaceful people unlike your violent counterpart.
Peaceful – one of the highest daily murder rates in the world is SA’s claim to fame……..what planet are you living on Shamray?????
Naledi’s immediate reaction when she heard about Russia’s invasion of Ukraine was explosive anger. She knew immediately that the invasion was nothing other than an act of state terrorism against a peaceful neighbor. A couple of days later she was siding with Putin following a solid wrap over the knuckles by Putin’s lap dog Cyril Ramaphosa. She is simply an untrustworthy pain in the butt for SA. Not needed in foreign relations but happy to spend our taxes on unnecessary trips to wallow in the glory of praise showered on her by supporters of terrorism groups around the world.
The South African government are a bunch of racist hypocrites. They need to get their own cr00ked house in order before meddling in the affairs of other countries. Notwithstanding one of the highest crime rates for murder and rape in the world. Far worse off than under the apartheid regime.
It is a disgrace really …..meddling in international affairs like grootman whilst in SA each and every SOE had been bankrupted by these fools, cant fix electricity and potholes ….amidst 78 people being murdered every day , 158 women and children raped every day …..and illegal foreigners flocking into this country making the socio economic situation beyond dire !!!!
“Pretoria” will believe anything they say. Talk is cheap, money buys the whiskey.
Hamas has a stated intention to annihilate Israel. They make a barbaric attack on Israeli civilians in the main and then run and hide amongst the populace as well in tunnels beneath civilians. Israel is supposed to sit back and respond and then retreat leaving the same military capability in place?
Our ANC failures are grandstanding as part of a pathetic attempt to distract the SA voters from their complete failures at home. They tarnish the good name of RSA in the free world by supporting despots and tyrants. Shame on them. They support bankrupt anti west ideologies, blindly ignoring the facts that the western world’s citizens enjoy the most freedoms and highest standards of living.
They have the plight of the poor on their absent conscience.
During the time under Zuma, there were ANC apologists who, to me held rather peculiar views. Because for me the ANC is self evidenctly a criminal enterprise with no hope of renewal.
But as I read the comments on Israel and Palestine I’m once more perplexed.
For me it’s not controversial to state that Israel is an Apartheid state (cf. reports of human rights organisations). It’s incontrovertible that Israel ethnically cleansed Palestine when it was formed (cf. new historians like Illan Pape or Benny Morris who show that the Israeli narrative of a land without a people for a people without a land was propaganda). It’s not controversial to say that Israel does not want a two state solution according to the international consensus (due to rejection of UN resolutions).
So help me understand the objection ICJ genocide application.
1. Would it make a difference if another country brought the application? Is there any country without pressing domestic issues? Is there any country with clean hands?
2. Is the problem with the term genocide? Do we lessen the term by using it?
3. Did you support Apartheid or just quietly look the other way while it was happening in SA? Maybe it wasn’t that bad after all?
4. Israel has a right to defend itself. Do an occupied people have the right to resist? Violently? The Ukraine?
5. Hamas is a terrorist organisation. Can define terrorism in a way that excludes states like Israel, the US or the UK?
6. Do you trust what an Apartheid state tells you?
Hahahahaha
All good points of discussion
The arrogance of the anc , the world does not jump to their command they are irrelevant and still dont get that.
How coincidental that Pandor and Co. are traveling to The Hague to hear the court’s ruling? Perhaps they know in advance what that decision would be in crafting this show of bias and complicity dressed up as impartiality? Just my conspiracy theory
The ANC is a terrorist group and they are sticking with their terrorists group of friends, that want to run this world through a dictatorship and terrorism.
This debate is all about whataboutism, I do not see any positive suggestions. The people who are suffering are ordinary Citizens of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, Lebanon and Israel! This is a supreme failure of the political heads of the different parties who have dug into ideological positions over the years. It is disgusting that it has got so far and calls into question just how civilised we are.
Both sides need to be criticised and sanctioned for their actions and appalling behaviour! I do not see a right or wrong side in what is going on!
I do not see the ICJ action by South Africa as a positive step as South Africa has taken a side and is no longer in a position where they can contribute to any negotiated settlement. Whatever influence we had with Israel is now gone. Our differing approaches to other humanitarian crises sadly reeks of opportunism.
This is the first time ever I’m not proud to be South African.
I commend DM on it’s good reporting.
However I wonder why there are so few questions in the Comments. Why so much expostulation and so little interrogation? Do we not read this to seek answers?
Have the writers of the Daily Maveric not done an excellent job of presenting facts?
Do readers want to be praised for their own insights?
Like good little boys and girls in grade school?
I praise you then for your comments.