MIDDLE EAST CRISIS
South Africa makes ‘urgent request’ to ICJ to stop Israeli attacks on Rafah
South Africa has made an urgent appeal to the World Court to intervene after Israel launched attacks on Rafah in southern Gaza. This comes as international pressure mounts on Israel to stop its military offensive in the city.
The South African government has urged the International Court of Justice (ICJ) to intervene and order Israel to halt its airstrikes on Rafah in southern Gaza.
In a statement on Tuesday, Presidency spokesperson Vincent Magwenya said South Africa had made an urgent request to the ICJ to consider whether Israel’s decision to extend its military operations in Rafah required that the court use its power to prevent further breaches of the rights of Palestinians in Gaza.
Read more in Daily Maverick: Middle East crisis news hub
South Africa filed its request to the World Court on Monday, 12 February, said Magwenya.
Palestinians amid the rubble outside the destroyed Al-Huda mosque following Israeli military operations in Rafah, southern Gaza Strip, on Monday, 12 February 2024. (Photo Ahmad Salem / Bloomberg via Getty Images)
The request comes just over a month after the country presented its genocide case against Israel at the ICJ in The Hague.
Read more in Daily Maverick: Israel says ICJ order, if granted, would leave it defenceless against Hamas
“It is gravely concerning that the unprecedented military offensive against Rafah, as announced by the State of Israel, has already led to and will result in further large-scale killing, harm and destruction,” said Magwenya.
“This would be in serious and irreparable breach both of the Genocide Convention and of the Court’s order of 26 January 2024,” he continued.
Magwenya said that under Article 75(1) of the Rules of the Court: “The Court may at any time decide to examine proprio motu whether the circumstances of the case require the indication of provisional measures which ought to be taken or complied with by any or all of the parties.”
South Africa filed an application at the ICJ on 29 December 2023, accusing Israel of genocide in its war on Gaza, and seeking to halt its military invasion, pending the court’s final decision on whether Israel is perpetrating genocide.
In a ruling handed down by ICJ President Judge Joan Donoghue last month, the ICJ ordered that Israel stop killing and harming people in Gaza and that it report provisional measures to the Court within a month.
While the Court stopped short of ordering a ceasefire, International Relations Minister Naledi Pandor said the effect of the order was tantamount to a ceasefire, Daily Maverick’s Ferial Haffajee reported.
South Africa’s request to the ICJ comes as Pandor told Parliament on Tuesday that the provisional measures set out by the judges of the ICJ have been ignored by Israel.
She said Israel is “massacring civilians in Rafah – the place they were ordered to flee to as a safe area”.
Pandor added that the DA – as the official opposition – was silent in condemnation of Israeli atrocities.
The airstrikes and missile attacks that continue to devastate the Gaza Strip have killed more than 28,000 Palestinians and wounded more than 68,000, most of them women and children, according to Gaza’s health ministry.
Israel is currently bombing Rafah, a city in southern Gaza bordering Egypt.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced on Friday that a military invasion of Rafah to destroy Hamas was imminent.
Despite pleas from humanitarian organisations, Netanyahu insisted that the military operation was necessary, saying that “total victory” was within reach.
Palestinians collect papers from the destroyed Al-Huda mosque after Israeli military operations in Rafah, southern Gaza Strip, on Monday, 12 February 2024. (Photo: Ahmad Salem / Bloomberg via Getty Images)
On Monday, Israel’s military said it had freed two Israeli hostages in Rafah. This came as a wave of airstrikes on the city killed scores of Palestinians, The Washington Post reported.
Roughly 1.4 million Palestinians are sheltering in Rafah, of which 600,000 are children, according to the United Nations.
Since the beginning of Israel’s war against Hamas in response to its 7 October attacks which killed 1,200 people in Israel, the Israeli military has repeatedly told Palestinians to evacuate to the south of Gaza ahead of a ground invasion.
Now, the majority of the enclave’s roughly 2.2 million people are seeking refuge in makeshift tents in Rafah – making it one of the most densely populated areas on earth.
UN Secretary-General António Guterres warned in a post on X on Friday that Israeli military action in Rafah “would exponentially increase what is already a humanitarian nightmare with untold regional consequences.”
Half of Gaza’s population is now crammed into Rafah with nowhere to go.
Reports that the Israeli military intends to focus next on Rafah are alarming.
Such an action would exponentially increase what is already a humanitarian nightmare with untold regional consequences.
— António Guterres (@antonioguterres) February 8, 2024
The Director-General of the World Health Organization, Tedros Ghebreyesus, warned that Israel’s plan to evacuate Palestinians sheltering in Rafah was “extremely worrying”, and that proceeding with the plan “could have gravely devastating consequences for the 1.4 million people who have nowhere left to go.” DM
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Yet no word about sudan
Thanks for the whataboutism.
maybe you can enlighten us?
probably impossible to do that
LMFAO
Sudan are UN members with right of access to the ICJ. Gaza are not.
Sudan’s is an internal struggle, they are not being attacked by an external agressor.
I would agree that it is a larger humanitarian tragedy than Gaza. The big problem they are facing is that with multiple wars taking place, aid is spread thin, and also a lot of organisations and governments that made pledges have reneged. It costs money to fight wars.
Interestingly, one of the backers of the rebel forces is Ukraine.
So 600,000 murdered in Sudan is less of a humanitarian tragedy that 20 odd thousand in Gaza? Wow, just WOW
Apologies Bob, misread your post – please disregard
Nothing to do with this story
Everything to do with this story!
Sudan is a separate issue, raising it with regard to this article is just whataboutism. DM did run a story on the Sudan war, hardly anyone commented.
What about the hostages?
What about them?
ICJ ordered Hamas to release them. But of course, the racist, antisemitic ANC ignores that.
One has to wonder why Egypt does not open its border at Rafah to allow refugees into Egypt for humanitarian aid? Could it be they do not want Hamas, under the guise of refugee status to infiltrate their country? Seems odd that they are not coming under pressure to intervene!
Correct, the neighbouring Arab states will not take Palestinian refugees and they have clearly stated they won’t because they don’t want terrorists in their countries
Yes, they do not want Hamas in their territories as this will probably lead to Israel responding to Hamas provocation by entering another states territory which could lead to all out war.
Exactly! The anc would rather scratch where there is no itch. SA will regret these anc actions in future.
The ICJ ordered the immediate release of the hostages – whu isn’t Pandor complaining about the non-compliance of Hamas at the same time?
Indeed. What about the hostages? It can’t be a good strategy to free hostages by indiscriminately bombing Gaza back to the stone age. The Hanibal directive is most likely in effect: “the kidnapping must be stopped by all means, even at the price of striking and harming our own forces”. Which is why the families of the hostages have been protesting.
Let’s then be clear: this is a plausible genocide and the longer it continues the more it looks like the only plan is to get rid of these “human animals” and take more land.
Codswallop
Hit a nerve there?
Huh?
Wow quite a lot of whataboutism from the person who uses the term incessantly himself in the forum.
Obviously your hatred of Jews/Israelis is quite clear to see. Your assertions are nothing more than conjecture and you show clear disdain for civilian hostages just because they’re isreali.
Let’s then be clear: you can cry all you want about “plausible genocide” but it’s likely you’re only upset because its not Jews getting massacred.
The hanibal directive you can google yourself.
The protesting Jewish families in Israel you can google yourself.
Military strategy, well, I listened to Major General Charlie Herbet. But it’s just common sense.
Whataboutism. I made no attempt to deflect from the point raised. I questioned the sensibility of trying to free hostages by bombing people. I then questioned the believability of the claim that the concern is about hostages. Clearly you have no idea what whataboutism means.
Crying about genocide? Yeah, what can I say? I care that people are being massacred. Not sure why you don’t. I guess, some people are just “human animals”, right?
Well done. You’re the first people to throw out the anti-semite claim. Please show me where I have said anything negative about Jews. The zionist project is harming Jews and distracting from real anti-semitism.
Very well said.
This is the one area where the government rightfully concedes to a humanity crisis of our time.
What is going to unfold in Rafah is sickening and will change diverse communities forever.
This is like a test to the existence of god.
Not sure why it had to be Israel and Palestine unless it’s the beginning of the end.
The government is dabbling in areas where it has been proven to be hypocritical, and it has clearly taken the side of the terrorist group in the situation. Interestingly, the use of a lower case ‘g’ in referring to God reveals an obvious doubt in the Bible, yet strangely you refer to “the beginning of the end” which is a biblical prediction. Either you believe or you don’t, it makes no difference to God, but it will make a difference to you eventually.
And it will be a wasteful accessment on your side if the small g is a typing error don’t you think?
No
Hahahahaha
Always looking out for your standard reply:)
This response is just rude
…but correct!
Look, this fight has been happening since biblical times. ( for those who believe in the Bible) Abraham’s legitimate son, Isaac, was God’s CHOSEN, and also the land of Israel. Remember, Abraham is reffered to as Isreal in the Bible. Let’s not forget that. And when Abraham sent Ishmael and his mother away, God said He would look after them as well.
I will probably get a lot of “no’s” on this comment, but facts are facts.
Secondly, South Africa should keep it’s nose out of other people’s business. Sweep up the mess at your own front door, before trying to clean up other countries acts.
I feel for the people suffering because of this war, but fact remains. It is a holy war after all.
Holy war has no place in this world. Israel claims to be God’s chosen, does that give them the right to act with no regard to the rights of others?
Proud of SA for standing up for the civilians being killed.
Should they just stand there and allow their citizens to be murdered by Jihadists?
No, Israel has a right to defend it’self. Should Israel kill, injure and displace thousands of innocent people? Also no.
People commenting here has no comprehension of what war is… hence their displaced comments. Hamas has finally been pushed into a corner, where they follow their standard strategy to embed them among innocent civilians (no regard for them) in the hope that Israel will not attack them there. Unfortunately, that is not going to happen – this is where Israel have to end this – complete annihilate Hamas and remove the threat to their own citizens. It is tragic that Hamas engage in such war crime – it will have tragic and unfortunate consequences for the civilians.
Isn’t there a quota for comments, or do we have to hear the same opinions over and over
As previously stated, you have absolutely no idea of what war is and how urban warfare is conducted. Cry all you like but what is happening is pure urban warfare and the aggressor, Hamas, chose the battlefield
“Chosen” to suffer.
You understand this better than most people. Aside from the ‘chosen’ and biblical narrative, you are quite correct is noting that this is a religious war on the Jews dating back to the invention of Islam.
“Invention” is a powerful description, please elaborate.
There’s the genocide convention, to which South Africa is a signatory, which compels countries to prevent and not commit genocide. You’d think this was a moral no-brainer. But hey, I guess genocides happen when other countries decide to “keep their nose clean”.
or in the case of the anc, they choose which genocide is righteous and which is not, genocide of Sudanese is cool but Palestinians not cool
Yes yes. Four legs good ANC bad.
I agree, SA should stay out of this war.
It’s a family matter.
It’s not a holy war. It’s not Jews against Muslims. It’s Israel against a force that wants to eliminate Israel (not Jews). There are two monstrous lies being told about this war
1) That any criticism of the state of Israel is anti-semitism. The two are not the same thing at all.
2) That any attack on anybody in Gaza is motivated by hatred for Muslims.
Which “facts” are you referring to?
The only fact in your statement is that these statements exist in the Bible. These biblical passages were written by Jews and at best indicate their views and beliefs. That does not make them fact.
The fact is that Zionism derives its objectives from the Bible. It is also a fact that jihadism derives its objectives from the Koran. The manner of warfare on both sides and the mutual irreconcilability point to religious doctrines as the cause of the conflict. With knowledge of religious history that is accessible to everyone, one inevitably comes to this conclusion. If the Israelis were not Jewish and the Palestinians were not Muslims, then we would be dealing with two related ethnic groups with different mother tongues, such as in Belgium. As there, reason would have long since prevailed for the good and benefit of both sides.
Best comment of all
The IDF found terrorists and hostages in Rafah. The hostages that the same ICJ ordered be immediately and unconditionally released weeks ago. They will go into Rafah no matter how much crying the the ANC are doing on behalf of their new financial masters, Hamas. As for the ANC, they will soon learn the lessons of consequence.
Not Hamas, Iran. Iran is bankrolling Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Muslim Brotherhood and now the anc
ICJ did not order the release of hostages. They expressed grave concern. They cannot make any orders to Gaza or Hamas because neither is recognised by the UN and so has no right to appear before the ICJ. Nor can the ICJ give them directives.
The ICJ also told Israel to permit the entrance of aid into Gaza, but Israel are still making this a condition of whatever bargain they are trying to strike. This should be no surprise, because it has long been Israel’s position that they are outside of the ICJ’s jurisdiction.
When will Pandor appeal to the ICJ to stop Russia from attacking the Ukraine ???
The ICJ already ruled on that and Russia ignored them.
The ICJ already ruled on Israel and Hamas. So why not go back regarding Israel, but not Hamas and not Russia?
The hypocrisy of the ANC is nauseating.
What about the mass killings of Ukrainians and the destruction of their civilian infrastructure ?
The same type of schools, hospitals etc were targeted.
And do you think that any current beligerent country in the world to the east of South Africa would stop their aggressive actions towards their neighbours, if required to by the ICJ ?
I don’t think so.
Agree. In one breath they are pointing fingers at Israel but they happily stand in allegiance with Russia who are doing the exact same thing.
She doesn’t need to. Ukraine are a UN member and thus can appeal to the ICJ themselves. Gaza are not a member and have no access to the ICJ. In fact appeals against Russia’s aggression have already been put before the ICJ, and the ICJ found against Russia. This has not deterred Putin, and any finding the ICJ makes will not deter Israel who consider themselves not bound by the ICJ.
We are sending our best and brightest, Dr. Fikile Dofokol!
They are milking their moment in the sun. . Imagine if they were as concerned about the poor and wretched in South Africa as they say they are about Palestinians. Imagine if ministers woke up everyday as eager to work honestly in the service of their people as they are to grandstand on the world stage.
Yes the ANC are hypocrites. Yes, the ANC are criminals. But in this case, a month ago the ICJ ruled that there is a plausible case for genocide being committed by Israel. Since then has anything changed to make it seem like they’re taking the ruling seriously? No. If anything, they’ve undermined UNRWA and now they want to engage Rafah.
So you and others may wish to focus on anything that distracts from what looks like genocide being committed by an Apartheid state, but the problem is the plausible genocide.
Let’s support our government to do what it is legally obligated to do according to the convention. You know, the one that codifies “never again”. Let’s support inalienable human rights everywhere. If the ANC is being hypocritical in being selective in when it chooses to support human rights, then so are you…
Undermining UNWRA? UNWRA in Palestine have been under investigation by HRW for over 10 years and multiple reports of UNWRA staff contravening UN rules, teaching Jihad, being active members of Hamas and of IJ have been submitted to the UN over this period.
You’ve got it wrong, UNWRA are compromised from within and the UN has been turning a blind eye to it despite mountains of evidence
Clearly there is no “mountain of evidence” otherwise Israel, when it produced its report on UNRWA would’ve included it…The report conspicuously lacked any evidence.
Furthermore, Israel vets all UNRWA staff. Not sure why they didn’t just detain them if they had evidence they are actually Hamas operatives.
Your claims don’t even pass a basic plausibility test.
But hey, please feel free to share your sources and I’ll have a look.
Wrong and wrong again.
UNRWA Claim 1:
“UNRWA has a stringent staff conduct framework in place to ensure that staff members do not affiliate themselves, and by extension, UNRWA, with any other groups. All UNRWA staff, Palestine refugees, and contractors, vendors, and non-state donors are screened against the Consolidated United Nations Security Council Sanctions List.”
UN Watch Fact Check: False
UNRWA claims that it ensures its members do not affiliate with “any other groups.” To support this claim, it states that it checks all staff, refugees, contractors, vendors, and non-state donors against the UN Security Council Sanctions List. However, the Security Council Sanctions List does not include Hamas.
Not surprisingly, UNRWA staff have been found to be affiliated with Hamas. For example, in February 2017, UNRWA suspended school principal and Chairman of the UNRWA Gaza workers’ union Suhail al-Hindi, after it received information that al-Hindi had just been elected to the Hamas Politburo. UNRWA reportedly took issue with the fact that he had been elected to political office, but not that he was a member of Hamas. At the time, UNRWA engineer Muhammad al-Jamassi was also elected to the Hamas Politburo, but it is not known whether UNRWA took any action regarding him. Furthermore, according to the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center, Hamas has controlled the UNRWA Gaza staff union since 2009 and many UNRWA employees are affiliated with Hamas. UNRWA spokeswoman Tamara Alrifai confirmed to Foreign Policy in 2021 that UNRWA takes action only when its employees are found to hold a political position with Hamas.
In addition, just looking at whether a staff person formally affiliates with a terrorist group is not sufficient. In the case of UNRWA, some staff that may not affiliate with Hamas have nonetheless publicly endorsed Hamas and its terrorist activity on Facebook. Indeed, our latest report found ten UNRWA employees who posted praise, support, and justification for Hamas’ barbaric October 7th slaughter and hostage-taking, including one staff-member whose nephew was among the terrorists that committed atrocities that day.
Furthermore, UNRWA facilities have been exploited by Hamas. For example, Hamas is known to have stored rockets in and built tunnels underneath UNRWA facilities, even as recently as December 2022. The UN itself found that during the summer 2014 Gaza war, Hamas had fired rockets from UNRWA schools.
Finally, UNRWA is susceptible to pressure from Hamas. In May 2021, UNRWA was forced to re-assign its Gaza Director, Mathias Schmale, after he had admitted in a television interview that the Israeli strikes were “very precise,” i.e., not targeting civilians, and Hamas declared him persona non grata in Gaza. Likewise, in April 2023, UNRWA bowed to pressure, including from Hamas, to reinstate a teacher who had been suspended for endorsing terrorism on Facebook.
This action is motivated by politics. The ANC are desperately trying to get the majority of Muslims to vote for them in the General Election.
You think so? I mean, this dynamic of DA supporting Israel and the ANC supporting Palestine is not new. So I wonder if this move is enough to change Muslim voter behaviour.
But even supposing that it does change behaviour, it would have to have been an extremely calculated move because it needed a plausible case to exist which, let’s say, took a month and then left 2 months to spring into action put together a legal team and bring the case to the ICJ. That doesn’t to me seem plausible. Much more plausible is that the ANC has historically supported the Palestinians due to (1) our own history of Apartheid which Palestinians now experience (2) the Apartheid government’s relationship with Israel.
the DA have NOT supported Israel, they have clearly stated it is morally wrong on BOTH sides and a peaceful solution must be found.
It condemed the “unprovoked attack” on Israel, because, you know, people should just die quietly in their open area prison.
The DA did not support the genocide case though it called on Israel to abide by the orders and for Hamas to release hostages among other calls. Notably absent is any mention of rights of Palestians e.g. right of return, cessation of occupation, the siege, etc.
Between Palestine and Israel who do you think the DA sides with?
Even the DA’s colour is blue!
But fine, I’m not going to die on that hill. I’m prepared to accept that the DA tacitly sides with Israel, even if not formally.
Honest question, are you related to Redwood?
Partly correct analysis, as only the western cape has anything left to steal.
The elephant in the General Election room is the ALLEGED payment of the ANC by Iran in exchange for certain foreign policy positions.
Entry of the Gift of the Givers into politics? Perhaps?!
At last check, Muslims make up around 1.6% – 1.8% of the South African population, with the majority living in the Western Cape and the majority of those Muslims vote DA. So the Muslim population is a non-entity in this country from a voting perspective especially for the ANC and will make no difference. The vast majority of SA is Christian and quite devout especially within black South Africans who are more aligned with Judaism-Christian values than that of Islam and will favour Israel (Jerusalem). So what benefit the ANC get out of this is quite difficult to fathom other than another anti-west (white imperialist) attack (very likely) or a more plausible and “revert to type” financial kick-back to the ANC. Very easy to channel funds to the ANC via a myriad of individuals who will gladly front for the ANC for a fee which will circumvent that pointless “fact check” exercise that was conducted.
Exactly!
Maybe Pandor and her South African supporters will do a lot beter by demanding that Hamas release the remaining hostages and stop firing rockets at Isreal She has a direct line to Hamas already
Exactly . Hamas are the good ones here ???
So she has not appealed to Hamas to stop fighting and firing rockets into Israel? In any event Israel will continue trying to achieve its objective of wiping out Hamas no matter what SA (read ANC) does. Just wasted money that would be better spent here at home. One has to wonder if either Hamas or Iran is paying the ANC to do this. I saw a video clip this morning of a row of ANC branded bakkies each fitted with a fancy PA system – I wonder where the money came from seeing that the ANC was virtually bankrupt 2 months ago.
Iran
Yet another unsubstantiated libellous statement. I don’t trust the ANC at all but if you are going to make accusations at least support them and provide some evidence.
Oh John, going by that standard just about everything you post is libelous and unsubstantiated
Will Pandor also appeal to Cele to stop the killing of SAn citizens at the rate of 78 per day !!!! ….that is 10 000 since October 7 when Hamas attacked Israel …..
Hear Hear! None so blind as those that will not see!
“South Africa makes ‘urgent request’ to ICJ to stop Israeli attacks on Rafah”
WRONG! This is NOT South Africa making the request. It is the ANC terrorists making the request.
No. It is the democratically elected government of South Africa. You or I might not like the ANC and might not have voted for them, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t a legally elected government.
You do you. The rest of SA does not have to agree to what the anc does at all times.
Much as I wish it was otherwise they are the democratically elected government.
I think South Africa has to retreat coz they can’t do anything about Israel and the Palestinians. This is in the Holly Bible. Even Jesus has failed to matiralised this antagonist behavior. Who are we if Christ had failed. And to my surprise, SA is sided with Palestinian instead of being neutral and they don’t condemn Palestinians when they attack Israel, but they condemn Israel when they retaliate.
Exactly!
We have a grave situation in South Africa with 70 murders a day and a gender violence epidemic. The government should stop worrying about israel fighting to get women and children hostages back from terrorists and start worrying about doing their job here at home. Nolady Pandos speaks English beautifully but it seems she may not read it as well given her contentions about the judgement
No one is against Israel from going after Hamas.
Morally rich humans rightfully feel it’s wrong for right wing Israel to mass murder Palestinians.
To practice apartheid against Palestinians.
To build illegal settlements in the occupied Palestinian state.
Perhaps it’s fair to ask the ANC and the relevant poor performing government departments to deliver but they don’t need the supervision of Minister Pandor to do that.
It is within the area her office and the justice department to go to ICJ.
Understandably for pro rightwing Israel followers the success will be a nightmare.
One must be morally bankrupt and cynical to say it’s normal to mass murder innocent civillians.
A conversation about Hamas is a separate story because they have blood in their hands and no one has open any case about killing Hamas fighters.
Bob F February 14th 2024 at 06:33
Was Pandor not at one time involved in education? She didn’t do too well there so what on earth does she know about international relations and what has she got against ISRAEL and Jews in general. Who is pulling her strings, not Ramaphosa who surely has enough on his plate what with the upcoming election and his trying to convince South Africa that he and his cabinet comrades have not been involved in corruption.
Firstly Pandor is a Muslim. It’s quite obvious which side she supports.
Secondly she is pushing the agenda as a representative of the South African ANC majority led gorvernment.
Thirdly there’s a third force nation which has likely paid a lot of money to SA to pursue the ICJ case.
Fourthly when the ICJ ruling didn’t explicitly demand a ceasefire from Israel the third force backers are desperately pushing for SA to pester and pressure the ICJ to take further action to stop Israel from completely annihilating Hamas.
Not exactly that difficult to see who lurks behind this action from SA and who stands to benefit from it too.
It’s plausible enough to consider this:
A bankrupt SA government is acting as Hamas legal counsel while a third force, most likely Iran is bankrolling the legal process and lining the ANC’s pockets as compensation.
Don’t blame Pandor alone, blame the entire SA government foreign policy. They are all culpable and let’s not forget the sad state of SA under ANC rule.
With 2024 elections coming up the ANC is happy to deflect from their internal failures and also fill up their empty bank accounts to pay for their election campaign.
Well said!
There is a lot of speculation and very little proven fact in your comment.
Absolutely. The ANC just has to open it its full financial records/books to the public to prove/disprove the rumours. But they ain’t gonna do it. Go figure.
Like most of your posts
Hahahaha
I was merely expressing an opinion, specifically used the term “plausible enough to consider”
If it walks like a duck talks like a duck, it probably is a duck!
Religious wars fought, and so many beliefs, have done little for mankind. Violence at its centre. Massive churches, loaded thieving pastors, come and go, the church is politics and mankind has suffered from it. Every country has its share of god-fearing/or otherwise beliefs, but peace is nought. IsraelHamas, just a never ending tradedy, all thanks to religion.
Amen!
Are you absolutely sure that Ms Pandor is Muslim? That changes everything! Rather like a lion dining at a Vegan restaurant and demanding a steak!
Look her up Jane! She converted when she married a Muslim. It’s a proven fact.
eh she is fighting an apartheid zionist regime, you should ask the DA why they are so quiet on teh matter? money talks Bob
Either you have no idea of what apartheid was, or you have no idea of what happens in Israel. Either way, there is an astonishing level of ignorance in that comment.
The DA are not quite. They have said that they favour a two-state solution with non-aggression guarantees from both sides. Which is really the only possible working solution. They also are not the government of South Africa, and so they can offer opinion only.
OK, who woke the troll???
Amen. One of few sensible comments on here.
The amount of energy the anc is putting into the Gaza scene is astounding while our own country burns its sickening. Their loyalties are definitely not with the people of South Africa, utter hypocrites.
And here we thought Israel would just comply – the point that’s being missed is Israel is fighting for their survival here, and doing a good job at it, where in the world do you fight a war and tell your enemy where you’re going to attack, Israel is.
Hamas came looking for a fight and got themselves one, and now with a bloody nose are coming to others like SA to argue for reprieve – what a farce.
The solution lies in the hands of the Palestinians themselves, hand over Hamas, let them drive out Hamas, let Hamas account for their aggression and heinous acts, they’re the scourge of the earth, and we’re defending them!.
The Palestinians have for the past 20 years been refugees in their own land, whilst receiving billions in aid, where’s the money gone, just look underground and you’ll see where it’s gone, and there’s still people like SA wanting to defend Hamas’ cause – idiots to say the least.
Sorry SA and those with this distorted view, get real!
hahahhaa . US-backed apartheid israel fighting for survival… you got that the other way around. 75 years, you okes are just so blind and clear G sympathizers
100%
Yes! In addition, there has never been a war like this one where billions have been spent building an entire underground city to harbour terrorists, or where the number of actual dead civilians have been entirely obfuscated by Hamas? Where the press mourns the death of a journalist who is actually a terrorist? Where an aid agency has a terrorist organisation’s command centre in an under its building?How can anyone be proud of a government that supports terrorism ? Anyone ,including Ms O’Reagan and Pandor who does not understand what the ICJ actually said , needs literacy lessons.
One of the VERY few comments laced with ONLY the truth, well articulated. Just a pity this will attract the vitriol of those who are directed by the false narrative spewed by our journalists.
Here’s the inconvenient truth they don’t want to hear.
It is not Israel that made the people of Palestine refugees, it was their own Arab brothers that did that. In 1948 after the British partition, the Arab people living in the area at the time pleaded with their neighbouring Arab states to help them eliminate the Jews and the new state of Israel. Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt etc all agreed and they attacked Israel thinking they’d have an easy victory, however, they suffered a humiliating defeat and returned home BUT, they refused to admit the people who started it all into their countries and left them abandoned and thus refugees.
Israel is an occupying power. How does a country have peace when when it occupies another which necessarily entails violence and oppression?
Anyway, even if Israel is fighting for survival (it’s not cf. Illan Pape, Norman Finkelstein et al.) it doesn’t allow it to act as it pleases. Nor does Hamas actions permit it to “unleash all restraints” – a horrifying thought in war. In particular, as a signatory to the genocide convention, Israel should not commit genocide. But the ICJ has already found that it has a case to answer in that regard.
Where do you suggest the Jew go?
When Israel decides to go to war, mowing the lawn and so on, my friend, used to question her Hungarian mother about Israel aggression, and when eventually pussed into a corner, that’s what she would say “but where are the Jews supposed to go?”.
The de rigueur answer, I suppose is that Israel should accept the 1967 border in a two state solution. The parties should comply with UN resolutions relating to the Peaceful Settlement of the Question of Palestine. I mean, I guess that’s the agreed upon solution by the world.
Personally though, I think that there should be a single state. But each has its challenges. The UN resolutions require dealing with refugees and settlements. The single state means dealing with potentionally a non-Jewish state.
But isn’t this all abstract? It looks like Israel is committing genocide. And here I’m not talking about the bombs, horrific though that may be. I’m talking about disease and starvation as a method of war. Listen to the UN agencies and NGOs. Even Palestinians themselves. Israel, despite this has the full backing (rhetoric asside) of the western countries like the US, Germany France, the Netherlands. It’s the only reason Israel has survived its international law violations.
“Personally though, I think that there should be a single state.”
That will work. Lots of happy, thriving Jewish communities all over the middle east, ne?
As I said, both options have challenges. But it’s not up to me, is it?
To repeat though, isn’t this all abstract? It looks like Israel is committing genocide…
Actually you are wrong. Go and read the judgment again.
The only references to the judgement I’ve made are (1) that Israel should not commit genocide and (2) that it is under investigation.
The second issue, I’m guessing, is the contentious one because all you’ve said, rather unhelfully, is that I’m wrong and that I should reread the order. Nevertheless, thanks making me check my position. I appreciate improving my understanding.
It turns out this is more complex than I thought. The order doesn’t say much about the full procedure and instead covers the provisional measures application. News articles and others have mentioned investigation and the court has powers to appoint commissions of experts to undertake investigations as it makes its final decision on the case. But how these commissions work and the powers they have I’m not sure. Nor is it clear to me why the court processes can take years.
So, the case is underway in which South Africa accuses Israel of breaching its obligations wrt. the genocide convention. The ICJ will make its final decision following oral presentations and in camera deliberations. Whether that procedure involves an investigation or only presentations, I can’t tell.
If I’ve made another error, please feel free to point it out directly.
Actually, after going back to the documents as you suggested, it’s not clear to me reading my original comment, what you’re referring to as there’s nothing controversial (I previously misread my own comment thinking had said Israel is being investigated).
Israel is occupying Palestine.
Israel is employing violence in its occuption
Israel is not facing an existential threat (according to Finkelstein and Pappe)
Hamas actions do not allow releasing of all restraint (there are laws)
Without commenting on whether Israel is committing genocide, Israel should not commit genocide.
The ICJ is continuing with the case until it makes a final decision.
Nothing there is controversial or cannot be substantiated. But perhaps you could be more specific in pointing out where I’m wrong.
It seems to me that the overwhelming majority of Palestinians are ACTIVELY supporting Hamas.
Well said Mr Strydom!
That old Hag Pandor needs to retire….
That really isn’t civil or appropriate to this forum.
True nonetheless
ALL a political plot to win votes… But doing absolutely nothing here back home.
There is no other explanation. “Muslims to vote ANC” will soon be on the election posters.
Perhaps they shouldn’t have embedded kidnapped civilian hostages amongst the civilian population?
Perhaps they shouldn’t have embedded kidnapped hostages amongst the civilian population?
All this hooha whilst BEE policies breech the rights of the minority in South Africa is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black methinks!
Sort out your own mess before sorting out others would be my advice to our interfering ANC government!
Plausible genocide is hooha? I guess that’s one way to look at it
Suggest you educate yourself on the meaning of the word plausible
Here you are Ben
plausible – apparently reasonable, valid, or truthful
JP K seems to understand it, what is it that you thought it meant?
Plausible means there is a chance it may be factual, it does not mean it is definitively factual, as in it is “plausible” Israel “MAY” have committed acts that “could” be construed as genocidal and therefore worthy of further investigation. So it is not proven that Israel has done anything wrong, the court found there is grounds to investigate further and has told Israel to act in accordance with the relevant statutes – this is the point you consistently miss and makes all of your arguments worthless
Recon the Jews know more about the true meaning of Genocide eh? They’ve been there, done that and certainly don’t want it to happen to them again. I, for one, don’t blame them!
Well, reckon you’re wrong. Jews I expect all have connections to the holocaust. But how they react is different and Jews are not unanimous in their support of Israel and its zionist project. So which Jews are the ones which know the true meaning of genocide, eh?
Besides, the Jews aren’t the only people to experience genocide. Note for example that Namabia, a people who also know about genocide, called out Germany for it’s support of Israel in its genocide case. You’d think Germany might know about genocide. It said the case “has no basis whatsoever”. Guess who got that wrong.
So you seem to be claiming that no one can question Zionist assessment of whether genocide is occuring. Clearly, that’s a silly argument. Obviously there are all sorts of experts in law, relief works, miliatry, public health etc. who could make intelligent assessments.
While you don’t want genocide to happen to Israelis again, you’re okay with it happening to others. Nice one. Glad it’s not your call to make.
Maybe if you want to look and sound credible you should do more research and check your facts more carefully. A very small proportion of Jews worldwide do not support Israel at this time. Norman Finkelstein is neither credible or representative of most Jews. The Namibian people you refer to were the Herbert’s and yes, Germany did perpetrate a genocide on them as did the Hutus on the Tutsis in Rwanda. What is happening in Gaza bears no resemblance to these tragedies. The Gazan population has helped, aided and abetted Hamas, as has UNWRA Hamas has repaid them by stealing the aid, hiding weapons in the aid , not giving them access to the extensive tunnel network. Beating them and using them as human shields. Israel is facing an existential threat – Sinwar and others are on record as stating that the annihilation of the Jewish state is their goal. Educate yourself Please.
It is really sad that Hamas is now using the congregation of so many innocent people in Rafah to hide behind a human shield again. The acts of 7 October have made Israel furious and determined to destroy Hamas. To make Israel the demon in this unfortunate saga is short sighted and testament to the fact that terrorist attacks never attract as much criticism as the defensive outcome. The right thing for Hamas would be to withdraw and isolate themselves to prevent any further killing and maiming of innocent people.
The “defensive outcome” you speak of is plausible genocide…
Voluntary genocide, perhaps? The Palestinians do not have to put up with Hamas if they don’t want to. One can feel for the Palestinians, but they have brought these horrifying acts by Israel on their own heads.
Look, I get where you’re coming from.
But consider this: are you accountable for the actions of the ANC? Would you be a legitimate target merely because the ANC run the country? What about if you actually voted for the ANC? What about then? These are not new questions. The answer is no. First, collective punishment is illegal and second, nothing – nothing – justifies genocide. There is no concept even remotely related to genocide-brought-upon-oneself. Children don’t vote for Hamas and something like half the people killed are children. Does that mean anything to you?
Anyway, all this ignores the history of Hamas and Israel’s role in supporting fundamentalists as a means of undermining the peace process. It also ignores that Israel is an occupying power.
Nope, the killing of innocent people is never plausible, ever. Your history ‘knowledge’ is flawed and biased, as is evident from your previous statements.
Israel is plausbly committing genocide according to the ICJ. How many people have been killed by Israel? How many have been displaced? How many will die due to disease and starvation? How many children? But of course, you’re not concerned with Palestinian innocents.
So why don’t you point out what you have a problem with instead of making vague accusations.
Hahahaha – no its not, suggest you educate yourself on the basics of International Humanitarian Law
The Ben signature hahaha I am starting to like it though.
You’re a good man Kenneth
Wrong on so many levels, your ignorance of the international laws and statutes is blatantly obvious
You are blind if you can’t see that Zionism is the devils ideology supported by inhuman pure evil demons.
No ceasefire without the return of the hostages.
Until then best you take over.
Hamas punched their last ticket.
Well played Israel.
Well played? The ICJ found that Israel has a case to answer in terms of committing genocide. If plausible genocide is what you call well played, then I don’t know.
Hamas has not punched its last ticket. Even supposing they are somehow destroyed, if the occupation remains the conditions which gave rise to it will remain and another group will take its place. Of course, this overlooks Israel’s 20 year role in promoting Hamas’ precursors and how Netanyahu benefits from having an enemy to fight distracting from his own criminal domestic issues.
Agreed. We’re told that we shouldn’t pick sides, but it’s hard for me not to after witnessing the graphic and heartbreaking scenes of October 7.
Hamas is responsible for the deaths of 28,000 Palestinians because they are refusing to hand over the hostages that they’ve captured. Israel won’t bow to Hamas; this fact needs to be accepted.
You are so so right! Well said
But it’s ok for Russia to bomb Ukraine ?
Why don’t you fix the mess in SA before worrying about other countries.
Maybe the South African government should warn their terrorist friends not to murder Israeli’s next time. Of course this time it’s too late.
Israel is THE most humane Government in the entire world, and this is A FACT. They will never launch a full scale attack against Chamas in Rafah before they have done everything humanly possible to evacuate the large Palestinian Civilian Refugee Population that is now found in that area. However, NOTHING is going to stop them from completely wiping Chamas off the face of our earth, and in this I support them 110%. מעין
Correction, “most humane Goverment” is your opinion not a fact.
Where are these civilians going to be evacuated to? The whole of Gaza is a killing zone and has been destroyed. I am astonished that you seem to be ok with the forced displacement of these civilians, not once but multiple times.
John P don’t try and explain its lost on a bunch of racists, proudly South African. As a person borne
and raised under apartheid the sickening narrative is all too clear and a reminder that in truth nothing has changed hence these comments in support of Israeli government’s murderous revenge. In my view, a war they could have mitigated had they acted on intelligence unless of course they were looking for an excuse… for this war at the expense of their own people. Nevermind the killing by them of some of their own on 7/10 by nogal by mistake!!! But I guess this will be heresay where the Israeli govt is accountable but a fact where we view Hamas the terrorist group accountable. But hey let the killing of Palestinian civilians continue why should our humanity matter. Guess we start land grabs, kill those who dont want to comply and reclaim our rightful place in SA should solve the problem of historical claims… This is the gist and absurd logic I’m getting with the religious and other arguments being presented in this forum.
Ah yes – lost the argument, lets play the race card
Note that these desperate appeals match the desperate situation of Hamas exactly. Hamas must be screaming its instructions by now.
The Iran bribes in motion – Hamas is cornered and on the verge of being eliminated and the piggies must squeal…
It’s almost like South Africa read a different judgement to the rest of the world.
For all those imploring that Pandor address the issues of Russia/Ukraine, Sudan, domestic crime and so on it really comes across as whataboutism. These are all important issues. But so is genocide. Would we be happy if South Africa just withdrew from the treaty? What would that say about us as a country if we couldn’t agree to oppose the most evil of human crimes? At least countries like the US, Germany, France, Israel, England, Netherlands – all signatories to the convention – pretend to care even as they support the Israel war machine. We should just abandon our morality? Nah.
For those rightly concerned about the hostages, try engaging with basic strategy rather than some Rambo fantasy about Merkavas or F35 or 2000lbs bombs as being some sort of sensible approach. Ditto for the destruction of Hamas.
This is an unfolding genocide. Engagement in Rafah “could have gravely devastating consequences for the 1.4 million people who have nowhere left to go”. This for a population already being strangled. But hey, I guess everything the ANC does is wrong, right?
Please explain how the massacre of 600,000 innocents of an actual genocide in Sudan is “whataboutism”, particularly as the self same anc pushing this agenda actively protected the perpetrator of that genocide
Whataboutism – the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue.
The meaning of the word is clear.
Shame, lost again John?
If you wan’t to complain about “cANCer” and our horrible government and inconsistent foreign policy, go ahead – I’m with you on that one.
But let’s agree that what Israel is doing in Palestine is plausibly genocide which is being supported by western democracies. But clearly you don’t agree. And so, when you raise the genocide in Dafur – which no one, and I mean no one is defending – you merely do it do deflect from the plausible genocide Israel is carrying out.
Weird that they don’t like the war they started, 7/10, does that ring any bells Pandor.
Yes, what about the hostages?
What about the Palestinians being killed for the last 10 years in Syria? Nigeria- Christians being murdered…..etc only noise about what happens on Israel’s borders.
What about the level of crime in SA- murders and rapes etc………… Can we fix SA first?
The ICJ ordered Hamas to release the hostages. Pandor conveniently fails to mention this. Double standards par for the course for the ANC.
You conveniently forget everything else “ordered” by the ICJ
your fantasies don’t count
Fantasies?
Pathetic and shrill bleating from the most hypocritical cabal of villains! We all want an end to the violence and a just peace in the Middle East but coming from such a flawed, false and hyper-hypocritical player party such as the vile anc, who only see and condemn ‘”genocide” when they select to, ignoring all other that is happening – who could possibly take them seriously? Poor puffed up fools – can’t get their own way and they are throwing their toys out of the cot. If this wicked anc was true to its so-called human right values, our Constitution etc., they equally would condemn Putin, Assad from Syria, the Iranian evil regime etc. Perhaps then most countries would take them seriously.
What a ridiculous situation. A failed state which cares naught for its own citizens spends an inordinate amount of time and money on a war on the other side of the world siding with a terrorist organization whose stated objective is to wipe a whole country’s population.
Exactly!!
There certainly is some truth in that.
Hear-hear!!!!
Looking at these comments it strikes me how the ANC has yet again misread the room. Not one comment is in favour of the ANC’s ICJ stunt. What a truly out of touch, incompetent bunch of self-serving thieves
ANC, please stop supporting terrorists like Hamas, who are continually firing rockets at Israeli targets and expect them to not retaliate. And please stop alligning yourselves with countries who don’t care about human rights, have terrorist tendencies themselves and jeoperdise world peace by taunting western nations with nuclear weapons.
Violence begets violence. There are going to be ongoing consequences stemming from this brutal onslaught on mostly innocent civilians, the level of hatred is going to be never-ending and this is going to spread out globally beyond the Middle East region.
Let us not try to justify who started what, let us not claim the right to suffering and to being the ultimate victim of history. Victims all too easily become perpetrators in an endless cycle of repetition compulsion. Until a change in consciousness occurs, and one steps out of the endless cycle of pain and suffering and chooses love.
I shouldn’t hold my breath if I were you as humans aren’t changing their fundamental nature any time soon. Killing at scale is one of the things that we took to as soon as we could and we’ve become rather good at it.
Its the nature of man, it’s what mankind has done since creation
Disgusting war pigs
Hamas? I agree!
Israel wouldn’t dare conduct war in Rafah if leaders from the Pro Palestinian faction offer themselves as human shields in Rafah.
We have a community innitiative where residents in our area contribute food and old cloting to a small location squeezed between the backwall of a industrial complex andtrain tracks. The living conditions suffered by these South Africans is shocking, the children literally sleep on a piece of wood in a tin shack that is blistering hot during the day and bitterly cold at night. A family of four lives off a can of food, a loaf of bread and a sachet of milk every day…where is the ANC government compassion for these people? Why are they so enthralled with what is happening in a foreign country when their own citizens are living from hand to mouth?
It’s true. South Africa is a troubled country. Look at any statistics relating to human development and wellbeing and we’re not doing well. Though, as the ANC reminds us, maybe compared to Apartheid we’re doing better in some ways. Maybe we don’t want to acknowledge that.
But should SA just withdraw from the genocide convention and only focus on domestic issues? Should we pretend as though we don’t exist as part of an international community? Should we ignore things like sport, entertainment, holidays, fancy cars and whatnot – because all these are frivolous things being enjoyed even as you say South Africans are suffering in shocking living conditions? Presumably that is morally not objectionable but supporting the prevention of genocide is?
If international law is applied which recognizes the rights of all human beings all the time will that not make the world a better place for everyone?
The anc doesn’t care about the Genocide Convention, if they did they would have arrested Al Bashir as instructed by our own courts
Cash for the election campaign comes first. The sad thing is that many of the people who live in those horrendous condition don’t understand who is responsible for their plight.
Its like our government cant read
The SA government should urgently attend to all the problems they’ve created in this country over the past 30 years before interfering in other country’s problems.
Confucius: You cannot have your cake and eat it.
It is at moments like these that you feel guilty in that you can’t be physically involved in destroying this evil..
Urgent request, nê? Anyone listening?
The world is sick and people are with the murdering of women and children in large. They are not condeming acts of violence behaviour but instead crying for acts of violence against vulnerable women, children, old-age and a population (Islam). This will not happen as Islam will live until judgement day.
Perhaps South Africa, aka the ANC, should use its diplomatic skills to ask the ICJ to firstly force Hamas to release ALL the hostages as was issued by the ICJ? Then, ask the ICJ to ask Israel to cease their attacks, which was not in fact a request issued by the ICJ.
First things first. Why is the ANC not putting pressure on Hamas to release the hostages, and then, Israel can then legitimately be asked to cease their attacks. But, while the hostages are still held by Hamas, then surely Israel can still legitimately continue to look for hostages, and turn over all stones?
What is Hamas afraid of that Israel will find further in underground tunnels? What are still hidden there ?
Let’s ignore international law for a moment which prevents both genocide and collective punishment.
Hostages that have already been released were done through negotiations. 130 are unaccounted for. Bombing Gaza risks killing the hostages – unless the IDF simultaneously knows where they are but doesn’t send in teams to free them… But that is probably part of Israel’s Hannibal directive where it is better to kill Israelis than let them be taken as hostages. This is why Israelis whose loved ones were taken as hostages are protesting Israel’s militaristic approach.
The second issue, is what you calling turning over every stone. What is probably more accurate is shooting anything that moves.
Which is really what this is all about. Plausible genocide. That is, wiping out in whole or part members of a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. This is about tens of thousands of civilians dead, hundreds of thousands forced to flee (many several times), and hundreds of thousands facing famine. It’s about families huddling together so that if they are attacked, they die together. It’s about the erasing of Palestinians.
It’s not about securing the release of hostages.
With the population of Palestine doubling in the past 10 years and less than 30,000 killed in the 5 month old conflict, they really doing a bad job at this genocide thing
This just puts more pressure on the US ,who are getting no traction with Netanyahu . The 2 minor policy moves against Israel to try to get the message across of their disapproval did not work. The sanctioning of settlers and including Israel for the first time on Countries that have to submit a report on usage of US arms so that they comply with international law (that report due by Israel in a few weeks ) .
What are the SA Government doing with the Gaza situation. They should spend as much time getting the country in order before meddling in Foreign situations. Will they ever learn? Probably not. John
So… “The South African State” (read: the failed, depraved ANC government) wants the ICJ to prevent an Israeli attack on Rafah.
So Hamas can regroup?!
It’s trash day. Clean it out.
When cancer is radiated – and there’s little else that’ll work – healthy cells are lost in saving the patient’s life.
I’m done ducking in empathy – the parents of the children of Gaza should long have protected their offspring against the inevitable harm begged by Hamas. It’s on them, on the parents. Leave now, any which way; make a plan – it’s desperation time long coming.
hmmm
South Africa has so many problems and is close to imploding but the ANC want to get invloved in somebodies else’s mess. Iran must be speanding a lot of money to get ANC to play this game.
what a strange thing to do. why don’t they do their jobs in SA? their support for murderous terrorists will end up costing South African jobs
This is very sad..
Well, why don’t the ANC show their leadership “skills” p please beg their Hamas friends to relent, release the hostages unconditionally, surrender and deliver the top three Hamas leaders to stand trial for human right infringements and for the murder of non military civilians – Israel and Palestinians. They should then be executed like the Nazi’s at Nuremberg trials 1946-1947. Israel has no other option but to keep momentum and crush Hamas, at least for peace for the present generations.
How about making an urgent request to Comrade Bheki to stop allowing the people who feed you to keep getting slaughtered? Just a thought. Maybe you can attempt to do something about the litany of other failures that have occurred under your ‘watch’. The world sees right through you, they know you are incompetent and corrupt, you are not fooling anyone except you naive abused voters.
Well spoken and what’s more this God is fully in control of this dreadful situation because He cares deeply for His people in both Israel and Gza.
Is there a large payment coming from overseas to fill the ANC’s coffers?
There is a highway of sophisticated tunnels in Rafah, probably more so than what has already been revealed and destroyed. Maybe there are other sensitive matters that need to be concealed. Just witness the weapons they have at their disposal. Why is that senile Biden doing all to demand a ceasefire. Wait to see the egg on many faces…soon.
Clearly a lot of commentators around here are just really or wilfully ignorant. The hypocrisy of the ANC is irrelevant. The only issue is the situation in Gaza. The horrors of the Holocaust do not give the Israelis a free pass to commit the genocide they are obviously engaged in. If you support Israels actions, you are a a murderous individual lacking common humanity and any sense of morality.
Reading through the comments, one cannot help feeling a strong nostolgia for Apartheid, an inhumane system that promotes the interests of one group and disregards the humanity of others. Apartheid fell, not because the majority of white South Africans suddenly woke up believing in democracy, it is because the majority of black people relentlessly resisted it, a few whites joined them and the international community (not western governments) stood by them. This alliance exists to this day and for the sake of humanity everywhere, it remains our only hope. Yet those on the side of Apartheid systems are growing immensely powerful and so, the struggle continues.
Actually many western governments supported the anti Apartheid movement, Just a quick list includes initially Denmark, Sweden and others joined later by Britain, Holland, America and more.
Victim mentality, devoid of truth
Why don’t South Africa also launch an appeal at the ICJ against Russia’s genocidal invasion of the Ukrain? Don’t want to upset the communist ANC regime’s in-bed relationship with Russia?
Hereros – autocorrect I hate You
You go for the ad hominem about educating myself and then you misname a people…
Anyway, you haven’t actually addressed my point namely that Jews do not have exclusive insights to understand genocide. And even if the majority of Jews do support Israel, so what? The majority isn’t automatically right. What’s so complicated about that?
Why pick the side that looks like it’s committing genocide though?
Which side is this question addressed to?