ICJ CASE — DAY 1
‘Nothing will stop this suffering, except an order from this court’ — SA sets out the evidence against Israel
South Africa’s high-powered legal team urged the International Court of Justice to assert its authority at the Hague on Thursday. Israel will present its arguments on Friday, 12 January 2024.
Only an urgent order from the International Court of Justice (ICJ) to Israel to immediately stop its military assault on Gaza can arrest the unfolding genocide against the Palestinians there, says South Africa.
South Africa’s legal team at The Hague said on Thursday that 23,210 Palestinians had been killed in the first three months of Israel’s attack on Gaza and more were dying even as the court deliberated.
The South African delegation poses for a photo in The Hague, The Netherlands on 11 January 2024. (Photo: Michel Porro / Getty Images)
Advocate Adila Hassim said: “Every day there is mounting and irreparable loss of life, property, dignity and humanity for the Palestinian people… Nothing will stop this suffering, except an order from this court.
“Without it, the atrocities would continue; with the Israel Defense Forces indicating that it intends pursuing this course of action for at least a year.”
SA submitted a request to the ICJ that Israel’s military assault on Gaza transgressed its obligations under the 1948 Genocide Convention.
The court will rule much later on whether Israel has been carrying out genocide in Gaza. But South Africa’s plea on Thursday — which Israel will answer on Friday — was for the ICJ to provisionally order Israel to immediately cease its military assault on Gaza, including stopping specific acts of genocide, pending the final determination of the case.
The court could issue this provisional order as early as next week.
‘Genocidal intent’
As South African advocate Max du Plessis argued, it is only necessary for the court to decide that Israel is “plausibly” committing acts of genocide in Gaza for it to order provisional measures.
Hassim contended that Israel had transgressed Article II of the convention, by committing actions that fall within the definition of acts of genocide and which showed “incontrovertibly a pattern of conduct and related intention that justifies a plausible claim of genocidal acts”.
The acts included:
- Specifically targeting Palestinians living in Gaza;
- Using weaponry — including 2,000-pound bombs — that causes large-scale homicidal destruction;
- The deliberate sniping of civilians; and
- Designating safe zones for Palestinians to seek refuge and then bombing these.
Less directly, she said, Israel had demonstrated genocidal intent by:
- Depriving Palestinians in Gaza of basic needs — food, water, healthcare, fuel, sanitation and communications;
- Destroying social infrastructure such as homes, schools, mosques, churches, and hospitals; and
- Killing, seriously injuring and leaving large numbers of children orphaned.
Hassim said Israel had killed 23,210 Palestinians to date, at least 70% of whom were believed to be women and children. “Some 7,000 Palestinians are still missing, presumed dead under the rubble.”
Read more in Daily Maverick: Israel-Palestine War
Israel has argued that it is targeting only Hamas and has never intended to kill Palestinian civilians. It largely blames their deaths on Hamas, which it says has used them as human shields.
Joan Donoghue (sixth from right), President of the International Court of Justice and other ICJ judges, prior to the hearing of the genocide case against Israel brought by South Africa, in The Hague, The Netherlands, on 11 January 2024. (Photo: EPA-EFE / Remko de Waal)
But Du Plessis stressed that, “Any motive or effort by Israel to destroy Hamas does not preclude genocidal intent towards the whole or part of the Palestinian people in Gaza. Evidence of other motives explaining its conduct as a perpetrator will not save Israel from a finding that it also possessed the requisite genocidal intent.”
This was because prohibitions on genocide and associated offences were “subject to no exception or qualification. They are absolute in nature, in times of war and peace, always and everywhere.”
‘No ambiguity’
South African advocate Tembeka Ngcukaitobi told the ICJ that perpetrators of grave atrocities usually protested that they were misunderstood.
“What state would admit to a genocidal intent? Yet, the distinctive feature of this case has … been … the reiteration and repetition of genocidal speech throughout every sphere of state in Israel.”
He quoted a host of Israeli officials, including the highest office-bearers, making statements which he said had incited Israeli soldiers to destroy not only Hamas, but the Palestinians as a whole.
These included Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu urging his troops to “remember what Amalek has done to you.
“This refers to the Biblical command by God to Saul for the retaliatory destruction of an entire group of people known as the Amalekites,” Ngcukaitobi said.
The Deputy Speaker of the Knesset, Israel’s Parliament, had called for the erasure of the: Gaza Strip from the face of the Earth.
Defence Minister Yoav Gallant had said in October that Israel was “imposing a complete siege on Gaza” with “no electricity, no food, no water, no fuel” because Israel was “fighting human animals”. He told troops that he had “released all the restraints” on them and that “we will eliminate everything”.
Minister of Energy and Infrastructure Israel Katz had called for the denial of water and fuel as “this is what will happen to a people of children killers and slaughterers”.
“This admits of no ambiguity: it means to create conditions of death of the Palestinian people in Gaza. To die a slow death because of starvation and dehydration or to die quickly because of a bomb attack or snipers,” Ngcukaitobi said.
“The intent to destroy Gaza has been nurtured at the highest levels of state, as President Isaac Herzog has joined the ranks of those signing bombs destined for Gaza,” he said.
Herzog had said, “This rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved, is absolutely not true … we will fight until we break their backbone.”
He cited several other examples of ministers and parliamentarians similarly denying any distinction between Hamas and civilians in Gaza.
For instance, Minister of National Security Itamar Ben-Gvir said in a televised address on 10 November, “When we say that Hamas should be destroyed, it also means those who celebrate, those who support, and those who hand out candy — they’re all terrorists, and they should also be destroyed.”
Ngcukaitobi said the genocidal message from leaders “is not ambiguous to the Israeli soldiers on the ground. Indeed, it is directing their actions and objectives.”
He played the court a video from Israeli media showing Israeli soldiers dancing and singing, “We know our motto: there are no uninvolved…”; and vowing, “to wipe off the seed of Amalek”
‘A crisis of humanity’
Irish advocate Blinne Ní Ghrálaigh told the judges, “There is an urgent need for provisional measures to protect Palestinians in Gaza…”
She noted that UN Secretary-General António Guterres and other senior UN officials had described the situation in Gaza as “a crisis of humanity”, a “living hell”, a “bloodbath”, a situation of “utter, deepening” and unmatched “horror”, where “an entire population” was “besieged and under attack, denied access to the essentials for survival … on a massive scale”.
Ghrálaigh said the need to issue urgent provisional orders arose “when acts susceptible of causing irreparable prejudice can ‘occur at any moment’ before the court makes a final decision on the case.
“That is precisely the situation here,” she added, because any of the genocidal acts already cited “can and are occurring at any moment”.
South African Minister of Justice Ronald Lamola (centre) speaks to the press before the International Court of Justice after the first day of the hearing of the genocide case against Israel, brought by South Africa, in The Hauge, The Netherlands, on 11 January 2024. (Photo: EPA-EFE / Remko de Waal)
Ghrálaigh told the court that in far less urgent cases than the current one, such as Georgia v Russia, Armenia v Azerbaijan, and Canada and the Netherlands v Syria, the ICJ had issued provisional orders.
For example, in the case of Qatar v United Arab Emirates, the court issued a provisional order where harm to about 150 students was in issue.
“In Gaza, 625,000 schoolchildren have not attended school for three months,” she said, with the UN Security Council expressing deep concern that this deprivation of education “has a dramatic impact on children, and that conflict has lifelong effects on their physical and mental health”.
Notably, she said, the ICJ had ordered provisional measures in all three cases where they were sought in relation to violations of the Genocide Convention. In Bosnia v Serbia in 1993 and in The Gambia v Myanmar the ICJ had done that on the basis of evidence that was “certainly no more compelling” than that now before the court.
In the March 2022 Ukraine v Russia case, the court had issued an order that said Russia’s military activities had “resulted in numerous civilian deaths and injuries”, also “creating increasingly difficult living conditions for the civilian population” including making it difficult for them to flee.
“This is occurring in Gaza on a much more intensive scale to a besieged, trapped, terrified population that has nowhere safe to go.”
‘The limits set by international law’
Professor Vaughan Lowe KC warned that Israel might give a unilateral undertaking to comply with all its commitments under the Genocide Convention. But that would not be enough and one reason to doubt it was “Israel’s apparent inability to see that it has done anything wrong in grinding Gaza and its people into the dust.”
Lowe added that Israel could not argue its right to self-defence under Article 51 of the UN Charter because the ICJ had already ruled in a 2004 case concerning Israel’s West Bank wall that the right to self-defence did not apply because the West Bank, like Gaza, was territory under Israel’s control.
“The main point is much simpler. It is that no matter how outrageous or appalling an attack or provocation, genocide is never a permissible response. Every use of force, whether used in self-defence, or in enforcing an occupation, or in policing operations, must stay within the limits set by international law, including the explicit duty in Article I of the convention to prevent genocide.”
“This is not a moment for the court to sit back and be silent,” Lowe said.
He said it was necessary that the court “assert its authority and order compliance with the obligations under the Genocide Convention.
“Indeed, it is hard to think of a case in recent history which has been so important for the future of international law, and of the court.”
‘An unanswerable case’
Commenting on the case, Cathleen Powell, a University of Cape Town international law professor, said South Africa’s legal team had done brilliantly, ticking all the boxes to persuade the ICJ of the need for provisional measures to curb Israel’s actions in Gaza.
She thought that on the evidence presented, Israel could have little to say in response to the appeal for provisional measures, though it would probably have things to say on the charge of genocide.
Powell noted that Israel’s main — in fact, only real — argument so far had been that it had a right to self-defence. But she felt that Lowe had demolished that argument by stressing that the Genocide Convention allowed no exceptions to the bar on genocide.
Powell was also impressed by the way Ghrálaigh kept reminding the ICJ of its standards and its precedents in ordering provisional measures in other cases of lesser severity than this one.
“It seemed to me an unanswerable case. Whatever Israel says tomorrow might have a bearing on the main case but not on the need for provisional measures,” Powell said.
She added that this case might help to turn the tide of events in Gaza. Although she believed it was unlikely that Israel would comply with the sort of measures the ICJ would probably order, she did think Israel might feel the need to make concessions.
If it ignored the court, it would embarrass itself and its allies, she said.
Israel will argue its case on Friday. It had not formally revealed its argument before the hearing, but in a response to SA’s ICJ submission in December, it said, “South Africa’s claim lacks both a factual and a legal basis.
“Israel is committed to international law and acts in accordance with it, and directs its military efforts only against the Hamas terrorist organisation and the other terrorist organisations cooperating with Hamas.
“Israel has made it clear that the residents of the Gaza Strip are not the enemy, and is making every effort to limit harm to the non-involved and to allow humanitarian aid to enter the Gaza Strip.” DM
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From this error-riddled puff-piece. Surely you jest. Had to chuckle about the “Major Domo” though – poor guy couldn’t get his government to endorse his nomination for the ICC, got passed over for a position on the Constitutional court and the HRC. Can’t be much good, can he? Hypocrites.
It’s this sort of fighting talk that gets us humans into trouble in the first place.
Exactly
Then Adv. Unterhalter and Gauntlett can’t be much good either seeing as they were passed over?
Well done team South Africa. What is Isreal is doing to Palestinians in Gasa now is unconscionable and was clearly demonstrated in their presentations. Proud to be South African.
No it’s not, it a justifiable and proportionate response to the actions of Hamas and Palestine
We should let the court decide
They don’t have jurisdiction to decide
Why wait for the ‘courts’ to decide, when people like hahaha Ben have already made up their puny minds … a residue of our apartheid era ‘education’ ? Similarly, in the US Trump wants the ‘people’ (the mob) to decide on complex matters … not the courts ! Throughout his career, he used to ‘settle out of court’ … but now that the courts/judges are deciding … he is really ?issed off at even having to be in court, before a judge. He is decidedly (by himself) above the law !
Absurd. That’s exactly like saying that the Hamas attack was a justifiable and proportionate response to the actions of Israel. You must exist in Netanyahu and Hamas’s upside down world.
So what Hamas did – committing murder, rapes and kidnappings just because their victims were Jews – is perfectly OK? Also, Israel denies it intends to commit genocide, whereas Hamas openly vows to destroy Israel. All OK in your opinion?
Nobody says that, except apologists for the Ashke-nazis, trying to avoid the truth. It’s the Palestinian Holocaust now, not the Jewish one (for a change).
Back at it Stevie. Not a single chance missed by you to express your hatred for Jewish people. Your comments are infantile and toxic. Are you aware that saying those same things about any other minority (or majority) in this country would get you jailed? You are very lucky to be given this opportunity to express your very deep seated hatred without censure.
I fail to see what Steve said to justify your post.
John, I suggest you look at more of Mr D’s comments, it’s not just anti-Semitic but he also loves to throw in homophobic slurs too
Well said
Steve Davidson – you use words out of context , or is it that you really don’t know what “Ashkenazi” or “genocide” actually mean?
Who cares about ‘justification’ … as long as you can have rant … even on the basis of misreading a statement ?
Not because they Jews , they occupying their land .This not a religious dispute this a land dispute. Only in the mind of zionists is it religious
For goodness sakes there are twenty five other universities in South Africa, you simply cannot run to UCT for every aspect of expert commentary in your articles. It just smacks of sheer laziness and bias.
Not if it works 😉
Is it antisemitic or hateful to ask how ancient jews became white? The modern carricature of a jew presents as white – seemingly at odds with a middleastern let alone semitic origin. How does a blonde haired blue eyed man lay claim to a territory in the middleast as rightful inheritance on the basis of direct ethnic ancestry? If I too were Palestinian, I may consider the proposition a tad preposterous if not fraudulent
There are Arab citizens in Israel too, who enjoy all the rights that Israel’s Jews enjoy. Are the Arab Israelis white as well?
A very small percentage of Israelis are Arabs, I wonder why considering the majority of inhabitants of the area prior to the creation of Israel would have been Arabs?
Not Really . look up the facts Palestinian- Arab Israeli citizens do not enjoy equal rights . The 2018 Basic Law codified it.
There is a similar percentage of Arab Israeli citizens as there is of White South African citizens. And you should note whites are second class citizens who do not enjoy equal rights, in particular the right to employment in the public sector.
The Jews, like the Palestinians are of Semitic origin
Maybe someone could clarify , does Jewish ancestry only pass through Matriarchal line.
Rather a silly question (the blonde haired blue eyed Jew). Many Jews are blond but (if we insist on the dangerous trait of putting labels on people with different physical appearances) many are swarthy and indistinguishable from their Palestian neighbours. Likewise, many Palestinians could pass off as “European” in appearance. Personally, I think going down the route of origins/appearance is (in this instance in particular) unhelpful, or worse.
What are they doing about Putin
South Africa has taken on the Palestinian cause, whoever wishes to take on the Ukrainian cause must not feel hindered by this.
What’s that got to do with it? I dare you to address the genocidal matter in hand and leave the whataboutism to others.
Ask the Americans and the British why they aren’t taking Russia to the ICJ. It seems there is no genocide being committed there. Otherwise, they would have taken up the matter with the court.
But they have or do you ignore that? Putin has been found guilty of crimes against humanity and has issued an arrest warrant for him, that’s why there was so much dancing by the and and eff around the BRICS summit where they were quite prepared to ignore the ICC ruling and protect their little genocidal friend
Well done South Africa and the ANC. Your bravery in putting this case of genocide with the ICJ is highly commendable. I felt immense pride in seeing how par excellence our legal team made the case against Israel. Thank you South Africa.
“ANC bravery”? LOL! Try “gigantic ANC hypocrisy.” There is a charming video in which St Mandela sings about killing Boers. ANC politicians have openly called for a genocide against Boers in the past too. The court case is a gigantic embarrassment, coming from a cANCerous terrorist regime, and even if Israel loses, it will predictably laugh off the ridiculous case brought by the ANC terror movement.
The difference is that the ANC never actually committed genocide 🙂
Hasn’t it been doing that (?issing on the resolution and subsequent ones) since ’67 when the UN tried to mediate and drew up ‘borders’ for the contested territory ? What is clearly evident is that a lot of people ‘who with hand over their heart’ did NOT support apartheid’, are now crawling out of the woodwork … so to speak. The use of term ‘terror’ movement in this day and age, is a text book case of a mind stuck in the apartheid milieu . Label the victims ! Mind you
it is ‘terror’ (remember swart gevaar?) … not corrupt or incompetent, which I may actually agree with.
Hamas’ charter states: “Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement … (There is) no solution for the Palestinian question except through jihad … The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: ‘The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!’ … “
Is this quote taken from Hamas’ original Charter or the updated 2017 Charter.
“While the 1988 Hamas Charter had been widely criticized for its antisemitism, the 2017 document stated that Hamas’ fight was not with Jews as such because of their religion but with the Zionist project”.
The technical issue rests on the definition of genocide; basically the obliteration of peoples because of ‘who they are’. Hamas’s well known stated intent of obliterating Israel is just this. So what they did on Oct 7 is therefore genocide. Like what Hitler did to the Jews in WWII. Israel’s actions are not genocide as they have stated that it is Hamas they are after, not the Palestinians and do not wish to obliterate them.
In the same way that when the UK bombed Germany late in WWII many thousands of civilians were killed, or in many other wars, but nobody shoulted genocide.
So now it becomes a question of degree – how much collateral damage is acceptable in a response. No one can expect Israel to do nothing. But doing as much as they have done – 20000 deaths and the destruction is, many say, too much. . Israel says the nature of Hamas’s defence – tunnels, using people and hospitals as shields is regrettably what is necessary to release hostages . So the issue is not one of genocide, but whether Israel is going too far in reponding to the Hamas attack and its hostages. That in my mind, is the issue and that the ICJ needs to deliberate upon.
Perhaps best not to bring up the example of the bombing of Germany during the latter part of World War II.
“The first major firebombing raid on Germany was carried out by the RAF on the night of July 24-25, 1943, when over 1,000 bombers attacked the city of Hamburg. The raid caused a massive firestorm that destroyed much of the city and killed an estimated 40,000 people.
Other major firebombing raids on Germany included the attacks on Cologne, Dresden, and Berlin. The Dresden raid, which took place on the night of February 13-14, 1945, was the most destructive of all the firebombing raids on Germany. The raid killed an estimated 25,000 people and destroyed much of the city’s historic center.”
Genocide involves the deliberate and systematic destruction in whole or in part of a particular group of people, often involving mass killings, forced displacement, and the destruction of cultural and religious landmarks.
If the ICJ was then in place and circumstances allowed, certainly a case could have been made by or on behalf of Germany against the UK and America. As they say, history is written by the victors.
Take the log from your own eye!!!
Interesting. When your President (and mine) went on that Fool’s Errand to try to broker a peace between Russia and Ukraine, they came back with egg all over their faces having lost a great deal of credibility. This initiative doesn’t seem to have come from the ANC or other political motive, but simply from a group of very concerned citizens who happen to be brilliant lawyers in their own right. They have used their connections to put together a team that is up to the task. It is just a pity that we have to resort to the Law to point out what is obvious to anyone old enough to read – that Israel’s response is unjustifiable and yes, evil. It will be a black day for the World if the ICJ does not rule for an immediate ceasefire. Whether Israel will pay any attention is of course another question, but it will mean that all her friends (including the USA) will then think twice about offering any continued support. Well done to this team. Bruce Danckwerts, CHOMA, Zambia
I can imagine after how, after the wonderful presentation the legal team of South Africa presented to the ICJ , it must feel to a supporter of Israel. Surely there must be a stomach churning feeling of desolation to hear the evidence presented by South Africa. I will go further to state that if stubbornness persist in supporting Israel in the face of such overwhelming evidence that Israel has committed genocide and if the ICJ provide the interim relief that South Africa is seeking, then the term racist and genocide supporters should be applied to those persons. I conclude by saying that South Africa would be better of if those that are racist and “genocide lover’s” would emigrate to a country that are sympathetic to such views.
LOL! You’re joking, right?
I just hope and pray that Justice is truly “blind” and all are equal before it. So the same “rules/laws” apply to all individuals/countries who attack others. Otherwise this is Grandstanding – Just, yes, but still Grandstanding as well.
Commenting as MJ Morris. I thought South Africa’s team did well – excellently in fact. One of the rare pockets of excellence we have seen from our country in quite some time. A And yes, people can moan and groan and point figures about Putin etc. but this does not take away from a job well done. I fail to understand how Tony Blair and George Bush got away with what they did. I also find it very weird that in the rhetoric from the Israeli politicians they compare Hamas to animals “human animals” and “cockroaches” etc. – except that animals would never do to each other what is going on in Gaza. Dehumanising people in the way that is happening in Gaza is a wholly human characteristic.
Well stated
Well said.
Where are the 10 comments?
No mention of the unspeakable atrocities committed by the barbarians on 7 October. The rapes, burning of babies, beheadings, necrophilia. And the Gazans, complicit in these crimes. Supporting and shielding Hamas in their hospitals, schools, mosques and homes. Torturing little children in the terror dungeons. Oh, but Israel is committing atrocities? Really?
Yes. Two wrongs do not make a right. Israel is committing atrocities. As did Hamas. If you treat a dog badly by chaining it up and abusing it, do not be surprised if it bites you. No mention of the illegal occupation, evictions, settler violence over years either. What is it like to be blind? Oh, you can read. Then what is it like to be self-righteous?
Well said. And these are people who bring up the Jewish Holocaust at any point they can but can’t see the irony in what they’re saying about the mini one their heroes are carrying out. Hopefully the chickens are coming home to roost for the lot of them.
Just to confirm with you Stevie, who are the ‘they’ and ‘them’ you always refer to? And which chickens exactly are you hoping will come home to roost? You obviously feel that ‘they’ and ‘them’ all deserve to be punished for being ‘they’ and ‘them’. Is that not just pure, naked racism? Hating an entire ‘they’ and ‘them’, wishing ill upon ‘them’ for being who ‘they’ are, is that not simply unadulterated hate speech? Do you not feel the tiniest bit of shame for being this full of hatred?
Mr D is good at that, he just loves his hate speech, particularly against Jews and LBTQ people
The Stevie’s of this world (and there are many) do not care about such distinctions or nuance … they are ‘frivolous’ in their assertion of their supremacist ideas .
What do I ‘always’ refer to? Obviously the Israelis! I’ll help you out with a very appropriate saying from Paulo Freire who writes, in ‘Pedagogy of the Oppressed’:
“The oppressed, instead of striving for liberation, tend themselves to become oppressors.”
And the chickens coming home to roost are for those of your presumed friends who have used the Jewish Holocaust for decades as a means to shut up any criticism when they are carrying on in the same way as the nazis they quite rightly despise.
Oh and to Harper – for a start I have absolutely nothing against LBTQI people whatsoever and I absolutely love Semites – Palestinians, Lebanese Syrians, Jordanians and all the real people of the Levant, even Sephardic Jews. I just can’t stand Israelis and their supporters.
In the main Israeli lies. If true, let them present the evidence and not use hearsay ad nauseum. It does not make it any more true. The very limited evidence to date seems to suggest gross errors by Israel in initially countering the attack by the Palestine Resistance. Then they themselves being responsible for mass death and destruction by indiscriminately using tanks and attack helicopters on not only the Hamas fighters, but also on fellow Israelis that they could not distinguish. Small arms fire only could not have wrought the massive damage seen on the vehicles at the festival.
Straight out of the Netanyahu propaganda playbook.
so now you’re saying the October 7th attack on Israel is just propoganda???
Don’t be ridiculous Ben
What’s ridiculous about my question John, you’re the one denying repeatedly the existence of something that has been proven and is well documented for years yet you and Bollywood girl constantly shout “propoganda” to anything that doesn’t suit your narrative
A marvelous presentation by the Team to the ICJ. It is hard to see how Israel will be able to counter the compelling arguments presented along with the quoted past “admissions ” by the Israelis from the President and Prime Minster down to the grunts celebrating their intentions to destroy the Amalek.
The merits of the court case aside; it should be said that the war will stop immediately if Hamas surrenders. This one-sided take on things is not serving justice.
Of course, albeit very simplistically. Stopping will aid Hamas. Heck, I don’t see any demands to release the hostages either.
Meanwhile South Africa’s silence on the unprovoked Russian attack on Ukraine and its civilian population is deafening. I wonder why these “great minds” were mot rushing to the ICU to demand an immediate ceasefire and presumably withdrawal of Russian forces from Ukraine. There have also been huge numbers of unnecessary deaths from that conflict along with inflammatory language from Putin and his allies. It has to be remembered that the aim of Hamas is to destroy Israel and presumably slaughter as many Jews as possible in the process. In effect Israel is fighting for its life. I am not a big fan of Israel but unfortunately South African posturing is not about right and wrong per se but rather about selective politics about what causes to support.
Well said. I think the answer lies in the fact that Russia is the ANC paymaster
What does this have to do with whether Israel is committing a genocide or not? Of course, whether Hamas is wrong or even abhorrent does not justify the killing of Palestinians on such a scale.
Because the ANC was dead set on refusing to act on the arrest warrant from the ICC on Putin when he was going to come to the BRICS summit last year, the same way they refused to act on the arrest warrant on Al Bashir – the anc protects genocidal maniacs and human rights abusers
Please stop referring to Russia’s attack on Ukraine as “unprovoked”. It was massively provoked by NATO’s continued eastward expansion and US support and backing of the 2014 coup in Ukraine. That doesn’t for a second absolve Putin of his criminality for carrying out the invasion, or mean that he shouldn’t be held accountable. If you want an example of unprovoked attacks on other countries, then look at what the US did to Afghanistan in 2001 and Iraq in 2003.
Absolute bollocks that Russia’s ‘unprovoked’ invasion of Ukraine was due to massive expansion of NATO eastwards! Where did you come up with this toss! Every country that has joined NATO did so because they felt unsafe and insecure with a constantly threatening Russia on its borders and so them joining NATO, a defense alliance, is fully justified because since 1900, Russia or the Soviet Union has invaded China, Korea, Japan, Mongolia, Austria-Hungary, Germany, Afghanistan, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, Finland, Romania, Poland again, Finland again, Germany again, Hungary, Austria, Poland a third time, Romania again, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary (again). In 1994 Russia invaded Chechnya. In 2008 Russia invaded Georgia. In 2014 Russia invaded and annexed (read stole) Crimea from Ukraine. And in 2022 Russia, once again unprovoked, invaded Ukraine.
And none of these small countries provoked the militarily mighty Russia into a war or to invade them!
Wake up!
How is it possible that you’re unaware of the provocation that led Russia to finally make a move to (a) protect the Ukrainians in the Donbas region who had endurred bombardments for the previous 8 years following the failure of the Ukrainian government to uphold the Minsk agreement, and (b) to stop NATO’s expansionism to the east and onto Russia’s borders. Do you remember anything about the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962 and how the US reacted?? It’s time to stop believing Western propaganda! You’re being lied to.
Perhaps the SA government should look to their own genocide/democide in which they’ve been and continue to participate over the last three years with respect to COVID and the vaccines. They don’t give a damn about our citizens and only do what benefits the individuals themselves financially, committing themselves to the globalist agenda that is destroying countries worldwide and their citizens.
While the carnage on both sides is totally unacceptable and I don’t even want to offer an opinion on the merits of the case what keeps me thinking is what is South Africa’s real intent and what is it trying to gain given the ANC lead government’s position and support of so many other regimes and appalling individuals such as Omar Al Bashir, Robert Mugabe, Gadaffi, Grace Mugabe, Cuba, Russia, China and on top of that the murder, rape and assault of tens of thousands here back home.
The killing must stop and a solution in Palestine must be found however this ANC government’s so called interest in this matter has to be questioned.
I believe they probably will win the case let’s see how they behave afterwards given its an election year and what the fallout is going to be from our Western business partners.
We are indeed living in interesting times
How much fall out do you think is likely? It seems to me that Israel has very few overt supporters, and none of them, not even the USA, are giving unqualified support. It is likely that large chunks of the world abhor what happened on October 7, but also think that the Israeli response has been disproportionate, and, to quote the US government, “indiscriminate”.
A very accomplished and impressive team with a wealth of knowledge and experience. Where are they however when it comes to issues in SA? Just asking!
Call me a cynic, but I live in South Africa. As tragic as the situation in Gaza is, I must ask who paid who to do this? The SA Government does not give a hoot about its own citizens why the sudden action on behalf of people half the world away? All this, while cozying up to the terrorists. What about all the other victims of wars and other violence in the world? Smells fishy.
I would guess at Russia and Iran
Does anyone think it is rather hypocritical for South Africa to point fingers at Israel when we had 27,000 murders and around 43,000 rapes in SA last year? Then add the road deaths, children dying of malnutrition and easily treated diseases, initiation school deaths, hijackings, home invasions………… And this is EVERY year, not just a once off. Where are our judges and politician and do-gooders when it comes to OUR human rights? Nowhere, because it isn’t newsworthy and it there’s no money in it.
Israel has not presented its case yet!
And yet the perception out there is that Israel has committed genocide. Well done, South Africa, you have proved your case even before Israel has a right to defend itself.
Hahahahaha
I’m with Israel. They have the right to defend themselves. The Palestinians brought this upon themselves.
Remember October 7th!
Defend themselves against who? Palestine is not Hamas.
Well, the last time I heard, 80% of Palestinians in Gaza are.
If Hamas were to lay down their arms and stop firing rockets at Israeli towns, if Hamas were to stop their intended policy of kidnapping, torturing and murdering innocent Jews and other people and if Hamas would stop their declared policy of eliminating Jews and Israel from the world, there would be peace.
If Israel were to lay down their arms, Israel would be eliminated from the face of the earth.
So the SouthAfrican brilliant legal team, has decided that Israel should lay down their arms while Hamas continues firing rockets and killing, torturing and kidnapping Jews, including women and children. Because whatever this court decides, Hamas will continue to attack and Israe3l will continue to defend. Israel has no choice.
Does this brilliant legal team not understand that storming into a peace and music festival with the express purpose of killing, torturing and kidnapping of innocent people will have a reaction? An intended reaction by Hamas. South Africa fell right into the trap, They are attacking the reaction instead of the action.
If Hamas were to lay down their arms maybe this current Israeli action would end. If however Israel continues with illegal settler expansion, oppression of Palestinians, control of their movements and economy and detention of thousands of people then a new version of Hamas will arise and the whole thing starts again.
The only answer is a return to the 1967 borders and the establishment of a free self governing Palestinian state.
what and then have the occupation of Gaza by Egypt and the West Bank by Jordan again?
I agree.
That isn’t what the Palestinians want though. They want the total annihilation of Israel and the eradication of all the Jews living there , either by death or deportation. They say it often enough.
Negotiation will not resolve that. You may agree with the Palestinian objective, many here and elsewhere do, but at least be clear eyed and honest enough to admit it.
Hamas’ charter states: “Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement … (There is) no solution for the Palestinian question except through jihad … The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: ‘The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!’ … “
The only real outcome so far is that South African government now has even more to answer for. Ukraine?
How much does this cost SA . One billion R or more if you look at all the top heads on this panel. South Africa does not have the money to adequately fund our own legal justice system. The NPA must function without nearly the necessary funding, the courts are badly equipped, The time table for cases is drawn out for years because of lack of capacity. People are dying of hunger in SA. There is no real effective policing in SA. Rape and murder , highjackings and housebreaking is on the rise. Corruption is out of control. The forensic services are completely indadequate. And then SA has money for this but also at the same time defend the Russian war against Ukraine. I am not proud about that
The real cost is the accelerating disinvestment in South Africa and reduction in trade as the West withdraws their deals and affiliations. This “heroic” stance against Israel is so profoundly against the best interests of South Africa that it proves – yet again – that the ANC is a recursive cancer that exists only for its self-gain and arcane reasons
I hear you Denise, but do you think all of that is more urgent than ending the genocide in Gaza?
It could be a diversion tactics, Denise. Why not take a South African legal circus overseas so that everyone in SA forgets about the disasters at home, albeit temporarily.
Just what I was wondering! who is paying for the luxury business class flights , 5 star hotels, transport and probably a bit of sight seeing thrown in. Are the tax payers paying?
A proud day to be South African 🇿🇦
I can only presume that you are joking.
I think most of the South Africans have a somewhat higher standards.
Truth, as ever, the first casualty of war.
Israel, since inception, has been surrounded and beleaguered by animosity, often violent. In this time Israel has shown itself to be quite adept at self defence and even inflicting severe punishment on those who would attack her.
This history is well known to all, and hated by some. The facts, however, remain.
Hamas, being more aware of this history than most, decided to attack.
What on earth did they think was going to happen?
A degree of cynicism that I have not yet reached would suggest: ” They’ll do what they’ve always done, if we just put in a bit more effort maybe this time the world will understand and start loving us?”
Sacrificing more than 30 000 Palestinians on the alter of that ambition? Seriously?
The leaders of Hamas, and the intellectual brains trust that planned this attack, should be found, captured, and brought to justice. By the international community. And made to answer for their actions in front of an international criminal court.
South Africa, with its delusions of moral superiority, will probably not be participating in this endeavour.
Which would be no great loss.
Don’t forget that the leaders of Hamas are not even in Gaza
Since you quote history, perhaps you should undertake some historical research. This on-off war did not start in 7 October 2023. In fact, it did not even start in 1948, it started before then with acts of terrorism conducted by both Zionists groups and Palestinians against the British occupying forces who had taken over Palestine from the Ottoman Empire after the First World War.
Many of the Zionist leaders were later to successively become Prime Ministers of the State of Israel. The Pole David Gruen better known as David Ben-Gurion – Haganah, the Ukrainian Moshe Sharett – Haganah, the Ukrainian Levi Eshkol – Haganah, the Ukrainian Golda Meir – Haganah, the Belarussian Menachem Begin – Irgun (Stern Gang), the Belarussian Yitzhak Shamir – Lehi, the Belarussian Shimon Peres – Haganah. N.B. These territories were part of the Russian Empire when they were born.
The British largely created the initial problem with their simplistic one page Balfour Declaration on 2 November 1917, which eventually led to a mass Zionist immigration into Palestine without the agreement of the Palestinian inhabitants (Muslims, Jews and Christians) of the territory, to whom they had also made similiar promises.
You are really John Forbes??
The British, much as did the Portuguese in Angola, Mozambique and Portuguese Guinea, eventually walked away from Palestine on 29 April 1948, leaving the chaos to erupted therafter and which has continued till this day.
The State of Israel was declared on May 14, 1948, and the USA immediately recognized the new state, which perhaps explains why they are still in lock-step with Israel to this day.
I am aware of the history, but thank you.
However, I do not see how that pertains to my point which is the ultimate culpability of Hamas for the events playing themselves out now.
Israel has a well documented reputation of ” responding as they deem fit ” to outside aggression.
Given that reputation, what exactly did Hamas foresee as the consequence of their actions?
Very well said – agree 100%. Hamas feels nothing for the Palestinians.
Excellent article and very proof of team South Africa! 🇿🇦
“Team SA” should look in the mirror. More people are killed in SA every year that have been killed in the Gaza/Israel conflict. Why are they so quiet on that?
South Africa’s legal teams thoughts are not the thoughts of all South Africans.
Agreed
is this the same court that sa has refused to acknowledge in the recent past
No. It was the International Criminal Court not the International Court of Justice. And even then, the issue was the selective prosecution of offenders rather than the legitimacy of the court.
If Isreal laid down their arms they’d be annihilated. If Hamas laid down their arms there’d be peace. FACT!
But on a lighter note I was wondering where was Dali Mpofu in this collection of top legal minds??
He must have missed the flight!
This is a good step forward.
There are no winners in wars or disputes, where cruelty, inhuman behaviour, power hungry action, or then, lack of an unemotional, neutral words; where abuse by corrupted leaders, reign and tarnish the name of the people of any country. We as world citizens must ensure that we do not have such leaders.
What about the other burning points?
Why do we focus on one “morality” only? Can anyone say they have the moral upperground? Are we hypocritical ? What is happening to the children of Southern Africa? Are they dying because of poor leadership, management and corrupt leaders?
The comments are predictably partisan as could be. To be expected on such a sensitive subject.
My concern is how SA can afford ( at what enormous cost we will probably never know) to send some 30 highly paid experts to fight someone else’s war, when we don’t have the legal nous and wherewithal to successfully prosecute straightforward cases of corruption at home, e.g. Koko et al – that cost the country R billions !!
People are dying, open your heart.
Same could be said for your home – open your mind
My question to South Africa is this: what do you consider a permissible response by Israel to the atrocities committed by Hamas on 7th October?
And that is a great question!!
NOT GENOCIDE!
I was Watching the proceedings in the Hague. One of South Africa’s legal representatives said ”Gaza holds 80% of the world’s starving population”. What are these people smoking???
🤷
Ignorance is bliss.
Oops, he meant 80% support Hamas!
This court case has very little to do with the well-being of Gaza residents: it is the ANC’s desperate bid to reclaim some prestige from a world that sees it as a corrupt, ineffectual, morally bankrupt cabal in thrall to the bidding of Russia and China. If the ANC cares deeply about illegally waged war and the murder of innocents then why do they sanction Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the deliberate targeting of civilians in non-combat zone cities?
regardless, it’s good work and it is going to save thousands of lives. Open your heart.
My heart is open to the suffering of the Palestinians, the Israelis, Jews, and the Ukrainians.. and others. My issue is why the ANC Government is leading this court case – since when do they care so deeply about the suffering of others?
Does it really require 27 delegates to attend in their finery at tax payer’s expense? All while our courts are backlogged and overflowing, and daily crimes against our citizens go unnoticed and unpunished.
This could all stop in a heartbeat and could have stopped 3 months back:
Release our hostages – simple!!!!
Einstein said ‘Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.’
Release our hostages!!!!
So proud of the team. The only defense I see Israel having is questioning the credibility of the statistics and “facts” the team presented. Whether or not they can prove genocide, it looks like provisional measure WILL be taken by the court.
I find this act hypocritical by South Africa when it stands by the genocidal intent by Russia to destroy the lives of the Ukrainian people and its country where Russia invaded Ukraine without a blatant initial attack by Ukraine. This is not the case with Gaza who first attacked Israel declaring war against Israel.
Come on Palestine. You started the fight, and now your bloody nose just continues to bleed. Now our ANC terrorist history continues as they side with a bunch of terrorists.
International media has been reporting one sided for decades, and Israel is always made to look like the aggressor.
Just release the hostages Palestine.
Exactly!!! Why does no one mention the hostages?
Well said!
good job
The great legal minds seem not to have thought that unconditional surrender by Hamas would stop the fighting (and, maybe, if Gaza really wants it, provide the way forward for a prosperous city state….).
I see nowhere that the aim of Hamas is the destruction of Israel and the slaughter of every Jew. Clearly the right to self defense must have a paramount situation. Look a little deeper and Iran appears as the motivator of anti-western values in favour of Islam and the supporter of Hamas and Hesbolah. Genocide? ask any Arab what they would like to do with Jews.
Yes, the callous hypocrisy is quite blatant.
Why doesn’t SA’s legal team tackle farm murders with the same enthusiasm? Get your own house clean before pontificating on the global scene.
Hamas and the rest of the Palestinians (and everybody else) will learn that ‘attack Israel and commit atrocities’ and the consequences will be dire. Your country will be reduced to rubble. Cry as much as you want, the lesson must be learned.
When the go overseas their fees change from Rand to Dollars and Euros …. R10,000 = $10 ,000. What’s not to like.
It is astounding to what emotional lows debates on this topic goes. Apples get compared with pears and the person instead of the ball is targeted.
One cannot feel but a glimmer of hopeful pride that our government has at last taken a stand about something, although the suspicion is there that there may be opportunistic agendas too to gain lost credibility before 2024. I am especially proud of the expertise of our legal team and delighted that the South Africans can test their mettle and participate at this level while others are sitting on their hands.
Others may not have necessarily “sat on their hands”. They may have noted that the case has little chance of success and don’t wish to be seen as using the ICJ as a political took rather than a legal one. SA merely fell into the trap…or perhaps had some form of inducement. They have form
As long as it stops the killing.
If there is a court ordered ceasefire, it might halt the killing for a while.
Take a guess as to which side will violate it first, as they have done countless times in the last 15 years.
Hamas specifically targeted Israeli concert goers… ran them down in the fields…. and committed atrocities. Then attacked people in Kibbutzes knowingly and inhumanely. This is not all about Palestinians, who seemed to be unaware of massive tunnels being dug under their homes, or the noisy bringing in of artillery and guns.
All deaths are very sad…. but why start something so inhumane and so uncompassionate Not all people murdered or hostaged were Israelies.
Hello…wokies…. did you care?
do you always choose a side. What a heartless miserable bunch. I feel greatly for the Palestininians, but they must become aware of being used by Hamas. Hama s is simply a business.All terrorism is… the usual…people hanging on and keepin their jobs. It’s a vested interest. All humans try to further themselves and their groups. when the undertrod get intpo power..eg ANC they do the same. Take the gold and jewels, Breitlings, and Ferraris. Lie to themselves and everyone .< and proceed to dominate, torture and kill. The UN is a joke filled with idiots living the good life and daring to tell us what to think and feel. Have they no shame. Gillian Salmon
Agree 100%
SA’s light content, weak substantiations, dubious admin logistic challenges and awkward omissions don’t look so “genius” now do they?
Small inexpensive team sent over I see!
What I would like to know is, if SA wins this case and Israel is instructed to cease and desist all fighting, and they don’t, and just ignore the order. How does the order get enforced. What are the consequences for Israel if they show the court a middle finger ?
There is absolutely nothing that the ICJ can do about Israel ignoring them.
Bunch of powerless, tone deaf lawyers looking to promote themselves on the global stage
What Israel is doing is minor compared to what Jews and Muslims have endured for centuries both from external forces and internal such as Syria and Afghanistan.
But what on earth are our legal experts doing in The Hague on tax payers’ money? Should they not be taking on our government as being in effect genocidal depriving millions of South Africans of a future and even their lives with their corruption, cronyism cader deployments and general ineptitude. By any measure a lot more people have died as a result, probably hundreds of thousands if not millions. Just think of the AIDS denialism just for starters..
The ” morals, ethics, and rights and wrongs ” of this war notwithstanding. Clearly, if ” we here ” far away are as divided as this thread shows, ” they there ” stand no chance. It remains inexplicable that South Africa is able to, at short notice, trot out huge legal guns blasting at international affairs while barely managing to aim us much as a pea shooter at local issues now dragging on for more than a decade.
And thank you Germany.
Sanity in short supply.
SA’s whole case is based on information peddled by Hamas (so called minister of health). As always, also extremely biased. The population of Gaza grew approximately with 1.6 million in the past 15 years. Difficult to see the genocide. The Palestinians did not really distance themselves from Hamas at this point. Lastly, I do net trust most of the panel of judges at the ICJ. Over the past few months the UN had spectacularly shown their true colors and where their lotalty lies.
Well, knowledge requires knowing and a three year law degree from University of Transkei without international law in the curriculum and some course work LLMs which are offered with a 100% pass rate can only make you slip and fall on the world stage. The wishful South African patriotism in this article is embarrassing.
I do not wish to comment. I would however like to read these 163 comments. I am a paying subscriber and am irritated by being prevented from reading the comment thread by this new hurdle.
Israel is not attacking Palestine people as the wish, but Hamas is using those Palestine people as human shields. They have given 3 weeks of notice to the people to move……
It’s a fight to the death I’m afraid. I can’t see any other reality.
As the saying goes – sweep before your own door first!!
I am ashamed to be South African when our Government postures at the ICJ and do not care about our starving millions and the crisis going on in our country, thanks to their self righteous selves. Such double standards.
THE ANC’S BRILLIANT ELECTION STRATEGY. Who would have thought that the ANC would be able to pull the proverbial rabbit out the hat? Things look really bad, so they have one goal prior to the elections: stop things getting worse. In this case the ‘things’ I refer to aren’t unemployment etc, but a loss in the ANC’s brand equity. If you want to unite people, the easiest and quickest way is to find a villain. It is a sobering reminder to realise that one should never overestimate the electorate’s ability to understand an issue, and never underestimate the electorate’s ability to react to an issue. Enter Gaza. The ANC initially provides a balanced view on the conflict, but later spots the gap and takes it. If they can find another villain (not themselves) for the country to focus on, they can contain the electorate’s focus on their inability to run a country. This is brilliant in its simplicity. The ANC then makes a case of genocide against Israel – and sends a superb (paid) legal team to argue the case in front of the world. However, here’s the genius part – they know that the case of genocide won’t hold, but that’s its beauty – if the appeal to the ICJ fails, then the villain is still out there and retains is focus – away from the ANC! They can then hold on just long enough to get enough votes to form a coalition to run the country. Can you remember the last time a political party won support by painting the Jews as the villain? I’ll give you a clue: it was the 1930’s.