---
title: "LISTEN: Donald Trump and the problem of having a BEE in your bonnet"
description: "From global powers to distant observers, everyone has weighed in on the theatrical meeting between Presidents Ramaphosa and Trump. But is there really anything left to say? The answer is, well, yes. Particularly, it turns out about golf, and the process of telling fibs not only about contentious local and international events, but more importantly, about your handicap. Entrepreneur Mark Barnes and Daily Maverick Editor at Large Tim Cohen discuss these and other important matters, including the utility and problems of “equity equivalents” when it comes to Black Economic Empowerment. Take a listen."
type: "NewsArticle"
publisher: "Daily Maverick"
site: "https://www.dailymaverick.co.za"
section: "Podcasts"
author: "Mark Barnes and Tim Cohen"
author_url: "https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/author/mark-barnes-and-tim-cohen/"
canonical_url: "https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2025-05-27-donald-trump-and-the-problem-of-having-a-bee-in-your-bonnet/"
published: "2025-05-27T20:54:04"
updated: "2025-05-30T12:07:31"
lang: "en-ZA"
word_count: 133
---

# LISTEN: Donald Trump and the problem of having a BEE in your bonnet

> From global powers to distant observers, everyone has weighed in on the theatrical meeting between Presidents Ramaphosa and Trump. But is there really anything left to say? The answer is, well, yes. Particularly, it turns out about golf, and the process of telling fibs not only about contentious local and international events, but more importantly, about your handicap. Entrepreneur Mark Barnes and Daily Maverick Editor at Large Tim Cohen discuss these and other important matters, including the utility and problems of “equity equivalents” when it comes to Black Economic Empowerment. Take a listen.

By Mark Barnes and Tim Cohen · Published 27 May 2025, 22:54 SAST · Updated 30 May 2025, 14:07 SAST

## Key points
- In a poetic twist of fate, Pope Francis, the humble reformer who aimed to modernize the Church, took his final bow just a day after delivering Easter blessings, leaving behind a legacy that even the most devout might find hard to ignore—especially when paired with a cheeky proposal for a new government office to tackle VAT woes.
- Pope Francis passed away on Easter weekend, leaving behind a legacy of compassion and reform within the Catholic Church.
- Known for his humility, he delivered Easter blessings just hours before his death at age 88.
- In a podcast discussion, Mark Barnes and Tim Cohen reflect on Francis's impact and lessons for those beyond the church.
- Barnes proposes a new government office to address fair market value, potentially mitigating VAT increases.

## Content

[![Image](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/DailyMaverickMasthead_BlackRed_VECTOR-2.svg)](http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/)
![Image](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/1000x250-Banner-SUB_compressed-1.gif)

[Media](https://player.simplecast.com/d6aa248c-f3c7-4cc5-be32-5d8dd3401aaf?dark=false&color=97CBD5)
[![Image](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/DailyMaverickMasthead_BlackRed_VECTOR-2.svg)](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/)
![Image](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/600x250-Banner-SUB-2_compressed.gif)

[Media](https://player.simplecast.com/d6aa248c-f3c7-4cc5-be32-5d8dd3401aaf?dark=false&color=97CBD5)
[![Listen On Spotify](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Listen-720x213.png)](https://open.spotify.com/show/4yWQE0oBOuD5jG9SBv7629?si=ReMs2biHS-mQLm1REMcXkQ&nd=1&dlsi=e96bec2853b547ad)
[![Listen On Spotify](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Listen-720x213.png)](https://open.spotify.com/show/4yWQE0oBOuD5jG9SBv7629?si=ReMs2biHS-mQLm1REMcXkQ&nd=1&dlsi=e96bec2853b547ad)
[![Image](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Apple-Podcasts-1-720x213.png)](https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/stand-up-business/id1671805186)
[![Listen On Apple Podcasts](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Apple-Podcasts-2.png)](https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/stand-up-business/id1671805186)
[![Image](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Youtube-Music-720x213.png)](https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaPH68a91__unkVyhbGtGjlSWwoclPWzh)
[![Listen On Youtube Music](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Youtube-Music-1-720x213.png)](https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaPH68a91__unkVyhbGtGjlSWwoclPWzh)

The world and its distant relatives have had their say about the theatrical meeting between South African President Cyril Ramaphosa and US President Donald Trump. Is there anything more to say? The answer is, well, yes. Particularly, it turns out about golf, and the process of telling fibs not only about contentious local and international events, but more importantly, about your handicap. Entrepreneur Mark Barnes and Daily Maverick Editor at Large Tim Cohen discuss these and other important matters, including the utility and problems of “equity equivalents” when it comes to Black Economic Empowerment. Take a listen.

Hosted by Mark Barnes & Tim Cohen

**Produced**by Tevya Turok Shapiro

**Music & Design**by Bernard Kotze

Hosted by Mark Barnes & Tim Cohen

Produced by Tevya Turok Shapiro

Music & Design by Bernard Kotze

[![Image](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/WhatsAppSHARE.png)](https://api.whatsapp.com/send?text=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymaverick.co.za%2Fstand-up-business%2F)
[![Image](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/wp-content/uploads/NewsletterFooter.gif)](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/dm-podcasts/)
[![Image](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/NEWSLETTER-FOOTER.gif)](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/dm-podcasts/)