Eastern Cape Division of the High Court Judge President Selby Mbenenge is facing possible impeachment. (Archive photo: Oupa Nkosi for Judges Matter)
Andiso Mengo told a Judicial Conduct Tribunal on Tuesday, day two of the hearings, that during a WhatsApp exchange, which lasted from just before 7pm until 11.30pm on 8 June 2021, after he asked her for the picture, he said, “Take off the top part or the upper part.”
She said her understanding was that he wanted her to undress and “be naked from the upper body”.
The WhatsApp exchanges between them were introduced as evidence before the tribunal.
The Judge President has admitted to the contents of some messages. However, he is expected to deny that he sent other messages and that an “incident” occurred in his chambers.
The tribunal is probing allegations by Mengo that Mbenenge sexually harassed her between 2021 and 2022 through multiple suggestive messages via WhatsApp, inappropriate comments and gestures regarding her appearance at work and an incident in his chambers.
Much of Tuesday’s evidence dealt with the many WhatsApp messages between Mengo and Mbenenge, her interpretation of these messages, and unravelling the significance and meaning of the emojis they sent to each other.
All the WhatsApp conversations were initiated by Mbenenge and all occurred after working hours. He asked her to delete the messages, which she did not do, although she told him she had.
Mengo, testifying with the assistance of a Xhosa interpreter, said that after he asked for the naked picture, she had sent “monkey face” emojis to him as a sign that she was embarrassed and “shocked”.
He had ultimately “begged” her to send a picture. But apart from changing a picture on her WhatsApp status, fully dressed, she did not send him anything.
He then messaged her, saying “robbed”.
She often responded to his messages that night with laughing emojis and monkey emojis.
At one point, he asked her to undress 50% of her body.
In response to a question about why she had asked him “how much money he would give”, she said, “When you are a girl not interested in the person you are talking to who is making demands in this manner, to chase him away, is to make sure you include the word money.”
Elderly person
Explaining her responses to the judge, she said, “We are talking about an elderly person. Wherever I am, I am someone who goes with my background. I could not lash on him [speak angrily to him]. Firstly, I was respecting the fact that he is my boss; secondly, because he is a powerful person, I was afraid of losing my job as I am a single mother. If I had spoken to him in a rude manner, I don’t know what he would have thought.”
She said that if it had been someone on the same level at work, she would have told them she was not interested.
Later on Tuesday, the evidence leader dealt with messages exchanged on 16 June 2021, again initiated by the judge. Initially, they had been about her work stress. He had sent her a hug emoji, which Mengo said she had felt comforted by. But then the messages became sexually suggestive and he asked if she was “quick to melt”.
She had responded with “depends”. She said she was being sarcastic because the conversation had taken a “disgusting” tone.
He had replied, “Are you still thinking?” She said, no, she was “cooking on the side” and referred to the oven temperature, meat and marinade.
There were further exchanges about “positions”, apparently after he sent her sexual pictures, which were deleted.
Later, in response to a question from him about what position might come first, she messaged: “I will go with whichever but there is a word I like. Surprise.”
She told the tribunal it was “disgusting stuff” and that she was just trying to end the conversation.
“He kept asking me the same thing repeatedly.”
Eventually, late that day, she stopped replying.
Asked why, she said, “Because this is a church leader. This is somebody’s husband we are talking about. This is a father who has a family. This is a leader of the division. Because he undressed me while I was in my house. He did not respect me in all of that. Wanting me to do something he likes at his time, the way he wants it. I felt useless as a person. He tore at my soul.”
The tribunal is expected to hear more evidence regarding further WhatsApp messages on Wednesday.
Tribunal President Bernard Ngoepe said he did not understand all of Mengo’s messages and explanations for her responses. For example, was she talking about actual meat, actual marinade and actual heat?
While Mengo had said this was a sarcastic response to Mbenenge, Ngoepe said that “certain issues” were still not clear and needed to be addressed and clarified, “no matter how uncomfortable”. DM
First published by GroundUp.