Dailymaverick logo

World

This article is more than a year old

MIDDLE EAST CRISIS UPDATE: 1 NOVEMBER 2024

Iran ‘preparing to strike Israel from Iraq’ - report; 39 killed in Israeli attacks on Gaza

Israeli airstrikes have claimed at least 39 Palestinian lives, including a hit on a hospital, while Netanyahu juggles ceasefire talks amid escalating threats from Iran.
Iran ‘preparing to strike Israel from Iraq’ - report; 39 killed in Israeli attacks on Gaza Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. (Photo: EPA-EFE / Alessandro DI Meo)

At least 39 Palestinians were killed in Israeli military strikes across the Gaza Strip on Thursday, mostly in the north where one attack hit a hospital, torching medical supplies and disrupting operations, the enclave’s health officials said.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told US envoys on Thursday that Israel’s ability to counter threats to its security from Lebanon and return displaced people to the north were key elements of any ceasefire deal with Beirut.

Iran preparing hit Israel from Iraq, Axios reports

Israeli intelligence suggests Iran is preparing to attack Israel from Iraqi territory in the coming days, possibly before the US presidential election on 5 November, Axios reported on Thursday, citing two unidentified Israeli sources.

The attack is expected to be carried out from Iraq using a large number of drones and ballistic missiles, the Axios report said.

The report said that carrying out the attack through pro-Iran militias in Iraq could be an attempt by Tehran to avoid another Israeli attack against strategic targets in Iran.

At least 39 Palestinians killed in Israeli strikes, hospital hit — Gaza ministry

At least 39 Palestinians were killed in Israeli military strikes across the Gaza Strip on Thursday, mostly in the north where one attack hit a hospital, torching medical supplies and disrupting operations, the enclave’s health officials said.

Israel’s military has accused the Palestinian militant group Hamas of using Kamal Adwan Hospital in Beit Lahiya for military purposes and said “dozens of terrorists” had been hiding there. Health officials and Hamas deny the charge.

Later on Thursday, an Israeli airstrike on two houses in the Nuseirat camp in central Gaza Strip killed at least nine Palestinians, medics told Reuters.

Northern Gaza, where Israel said in January it had dismantled Hamas’s command structure, is currently the main focus of the military’s assault in the enclave. Earlier this month it sent tanks into Jabalia, Beit Hanoun, and Beit Lahiya to flush out militants it said had regrouped in the area.

Eid Sabbah, director of nursing at Kamal Adwan – which is in Beit Lahiya – told Reuters some staff had suffered minor burns after the Israeli strike hit the third floor of the hospital.

There were no reports of any casualties at the hospital, which Israeli forces stormed and briefly occupied last week. Israel said it had captured around 100 suspected Hamas militants in that raid. Israeli tanks are still stationed nearby.

The health ministry in the Hamas-run Gaza Strip called for all international bodies “to protect hospitals and medical staff from the brutality of the (Israeli) occupation”.

The Israeli military has said its forces are operating in the hospital area based on intelligence.

“During the operation, it was found that dozens of terrorists were hiding in the hospital, with some even posing as hospital staff,” said the military in a statement following Thursday’s strike.

Medical charity Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) said on Thursday that one of its doctors at the hospital, Mohammed Obeid, had been detained last Saturday by Israeli forces. It called for the protection of him and all medical staff who “are facing horrific violence as they try to provide care”.

The Gaza war began after Hamas-led militants attacked Israel on 7 October 2023, killing some 1,200 people and taking 251 hostages back to Gaza, according to Israeli tallies.

Israel’s subsequent assault on Gaza has killed more than 43,000 Palestinians and reduced most of the enclave to rubble, Palestinian authorities say.

Netanyahu clarifies key elements of any Lebanon ceasefire deal

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told US envoys on Thursday that Israel’s ability to counter threats to its security from Lebanon and return displaced people to the north were key elements of any ceasefire deal with Beirut.

He was speaking shortly after a Hezbollah attack on northern Israel’s Metula killed five people including an Israeli farmer and four foreign workers, while two more civilians were killed from shrapnel near the town of Kiryat Ata, Israeli authorities said.

Meanwhile, Beirut said a series of Israeli strikes had killed six health workers in southern Lebanon.

“The main issue is not the paperwork of this or that agreement, but Israel’s ability and determination to enforce the agreement and thwart any threat to its security from Lebanon,” Netanyahu’s office cited him as telling the two US envoys.

Brett McGurk and Amos Hochstein were in Israel on a new push to secure ceasefires in both Lebanon and Gaza.

Sources previously told Reuters that talks were centred on a 60-day pause to allow for the implementation of UN Security Council Resolution 1701, which would entail Hezbollah withdrawing its armed presence from south of the Litani River.

The diplomatic push comes amid intensifying fighting between Israel and Iran-backed Hezbollah, which has run in parallel to Israel’s war in Gaza against Hamas militants that has left the tiny enclave in ruins and has caused a humanitarian crisis.

Saudi Arabia’s foreign minister accused Israel of perpetrating a form of “genocide” with its grinding assault on northern Gaza – a charge it denies – and called on Lebanon to solve its long-running political crisis.

Israel bombarded areas around the eastern city of Baalbek on Thursday for a second consecutive day after issuing evacuation notices.

On Wednesday it had conducted heavy airstrikes targeting Hezbollah in and around the city, which is famed for its Roman temples.

Dozens of cars could be seen speeding out of the area after Thursday’s warning, with wafts of black smoke still visible emanating from the town of Douris, where an Israeli strike the previous day destroyed Hezbollah fuel stocks, according to the Israeli military and a Lebanese security source.

Thousands fleeing the violence have sought shelter in the nearby Christian-majority town of Deir al-Ahmar, where local official Jean Fakhry said authorities were struggling to cover even a fraction of their needs and some people had to spend the night in their cars.

“We cannot continue this way,” Fakhry said.

The killing of six Lebanese health workers and wounding of four others in three separate strikes across south Lebanon on Thursday brought the total toll of health workers killed and wounded in over a year of Israeli strikes to 178 and 279 respectively, the Lebanese health ministry said.

Hezbollah said it had launched several rocket and artillery attacks against Israeli forces near the southern town of Khiyam. It marked the fourth consecutive day of fighting in and around the strategic hilltop town, which is home to one of the largest Shi’ite communities in southern Lebanon.

The mayor of the Lebanese border town of Wazzani, south of Khiyam, said he had pleaded with authorities to evacuate more than 20 people, most of them women and children, who were stuck in the crossfire, but Lebanese authorities said Israel had not responded to his appeal.

“We keep asking for them to be helped but it’s like we’re in a jungle. No one listens,” Mayor Ahmed Mohammed told Reuters.

Hezbollah aims to keep Israeli forces out of Khiyam to prevent them from detonating homes and buildings, as has happened on a large scale in other border towns, a source familiar with the group’s thinking told Reuters.

Hezbollah says its fighters have prevented Israel from fully occupying or controlling any southern villages, while Israel says it is carrying out limited ground operations aimed at destroying the group’s infrastructure.

EU Council chief warns of ‘consequences’ of Israel’s UNRWA ban

The European Council President warned on Thursday that Israel’s decision to ban the key UN aid agency for Gaza could result in the annulment of a deal establishing Israeli trade relations with Brussels.

Israel passed a law on Monday banning the UN Palestinian refugee agency UNRWA from operating in the country, raising concerns about its ability to provide relief in Gaza after more than a year of war between Israeli forces and Hamas-led militants.

“The decision made by parliament in Israel, if implemented, to ban UNRWA in Israel is absolutely not acceptable and I cannot imagine that there would be no consequences on the EU side,” Charles Michel told reporters in Geneva.

“I can observe that more and more voices, including at the political level, the highest political level of the EU, are considering that the time will come to put on the table the Association Agreement between Israel and the EU,” he said.

Ireland has previously called for a review of the deal on human rights grounds, which are cited in the terms of its provisions.

The deal, which entered into force in 2000, provides the legal basis for trade between the two parties. An EU website showed that the EU is Israel’s biggest trade partner, accounting for 28.8% of its trade in goods in 2022, while Israel is the EU’s 25th-biggest trade partner.

Israel claims it downed drone smuggling weapons from Egypt

Israel’s military said on Thursday it shot down a drone smuggling weapons from Egyptian territory to Israel on Wednesday.

However, two Egyptian security officials dismissed the claim, stating that Egyptian border patrols had reported no evidence of weapons smuggling into Gaza or Israel on Wednesday.

Israeli officials have said during the war in Gaza that Hamas used tunnels running under the border into Egypt’s Sinai region to smuggle arms.

Egypt says it destroyed tunnel networks leading to Gaza years ago and created a buffer zone and border fortifications that prevent smuggling.

Earlier in October, the Israeli military also said it foiled a weapons smuggling attempt from Egypt after downing a drone carrying firearms and bullets.

Israeli Cabinet set to approve austerity budget

Israeli Cabinet ministers were to start voting later on Thursday on a long-awaited wartime budget for 2025 that will rein in spending and raise a host of taxes to pay for the military conflicts that have engulfed the country.

The wars in Gaza and Lebanon have cost Israeli coffers tens of billions of shekels on spending for defence –on equipment and manpower after hundreds of thousands of citizens were called into reserve duty – and in compensation for those impacted.

“Our security also depends on the economy. We cannot have a strong military if we have no way of financing it,” Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said at the outset of the Cabinet meeting before the budget vote, which could run into the night.

“There is no economy without restrictions. If you give to one place, you unfortunately need to take from another,” he said.

Israel’s economy has taken a hit since the 7 October 2023 attack by Hamas. There has been zero growth but supply issues have pushed up inflation, and the cost of living for Israelis – already emotionally drained by the more than one-year war – has soared.

All three major credit ratings have cut Israel’s credit rating this year due to the wars, raising financing costs, and stubborn inflation of 3% has forced the central bank to keep interest rates high with no respite from rate cuts in sight.

On top of all that, the 2025 budget imposes austerity, with some 40 billion shekels ($10.8 billion) of proposed spending reductions and tax increases aimed at bringing down the budget deficit from a current 8.5% of gross domestic product – above a 2024 target of 6.6% – to 4% of GDP.

Among the tax hikes, value-added tax will rise in 2025 to 18% from 17%.

The military in 2025 will not have an unlimited budget, said Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, although its spending will be 102 billion shekels next year.

In all, budgetary spending will be 744 billion shekels in 2025, with 161 billion shekels going to service the country’s debt.

“It is important that we transmit stability and control and a hand on the wheel of the economy so that all our partners in the economy ... will move the economy forward,” Smotrich said at the Cabinet meeting.

“Now, the economy serves security. We will end the war with victory and bring security and with it also a good economy.”

Economic growth is forecast at 0.4% in 2024 and 4.3% in 2025.

“We are in the longest and most expensive war in Israel’s history,” Smotrich said. “In the last year, we have demonstrated an amazing ability to withstand all the efforts of the war and its costs. There is great resilience in the economy.”

After the Cabinet approval, the budget will head to parliament for an initial vote. Smotrich expects final parliamentary approval in January.

Failure to pass the budget by 31 March 2025 would trigger new elections. DM

Read more: Middle East crisis news hub

Comments (6)

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 07:33 AM

"This ongoing genocide is doubtlessly the consequence of the exceptional status and protracted impunity that has been afforded to Israel. Israel has systematically and flagrantly violated international law, including Security Council resolutions and ICJ orders" (Genocide as colonial erasure)

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 08:17 AM

Utter nonsense. Come now - no one gets criticized as heavily or as continuously as Israel. You statement is factually incorrect. This despite the continued rocket attacks on civilians for DECADES. You all need to take your blinders off. Not genocide: war prosecuted by a country that has had enough

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 08:45 AM

Every accusation against Hamas above, check the source. Israel denies press entry to Gaza, so that every single report of evil about Gazans, come directly from the very people killing them. Since when do we believe a single source? Clearly hiding what they're doing. Share land, no terror

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 11:57 AM

Oh, and before I forget the rocket attacks on Israel by Hamas and Hezbolla over the last couple of DECADES are pretty well documented.

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 03:16 PM

No one disputes the rocket fire. In the context of a nuclear armed country with the Iron Dome backed by a super power, of what import are ineffectual rockets? Does resistance to occupation entitle any state to commit genocide?

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 03:51 PM

Seriously now. What exactly would you expect to happen when you rain lieterally thousands of rockets on a civilian population for more than a decade? I find it hillarious how determined people are to have negative view on anythign Israel does. Its an obvious result of manipulation and propaganda.

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 05:01 PM

Post-7 October, Israel has framed its military operations in Gaza as a war of self-defence and counter-terrorism against a terrorist group. However, it is well established that Israel cannot legitimately invoke self-defence against the population under its occupation

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 09:19 AM

Why does Israel get criticised? Arbitrary dislike for the religion of it's people? Come now - think. They are criticised because they continually do racist, discriminatory, violent things to the native population, & lie about it, for 3 generations. Land&oppression by Israel is why they get rockets

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 09:20 AM

"Post-7 October, Israel has framed its military operations in Gaza as a war of selfdefence & counter-terrorism against a terrorist group. However, it is well established that Israel cannot legitimately invoke selfdefence against the population under its occupation." Genocide as colonial erasure

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 09:23 AM

It is clear that you disagree with calling what is going on in Gaza a genocide. But other than merely denying the work of experts, do you have anything to support your assertions other than your intuition?

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 09:44 AM

Israel has been playing the religious victim card since the holocaust, to justify keeping stolen land, and say they're defending against religion-based hatred. Emotive, and not rational, for public support. The world is sick of their violence to keep the land, and take more, for only their people

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 10:12 AM

“Post-7 October, Israel has framed its military operations in Gaza as a war of selfdefence & counter-terrorism against a terrorist group. However, it is well established that Israel cannot legitimately invoke selfdefence against the population under its occupation.” Genocide as colonial erasure

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 10:43 AM

I wonder if you are aware that the only reason Israel is seen "occupying" Gaza is a loop hole? Its basically sophistry. Says that because they can reinvade at any time, they are occupying it. By that definition, the US occupies Mexico. Pretty thin. Again: war, not genocide.

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 11:01 AM

(1) I am aware that: "Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised." Which applies to Israel. Clearly not Mexico.

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 11:05 AM

That's ridiculous. Gaza's rights, imports, ports, money, energy - everything is controlled by Israel. It's not even a country - it houses refugees from when they were the majority and Zionists decided their land must be for Jews only. Mexico is a free country. Palestinian's freedom stolen

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 11:14 AM

(2) But besides, the territorial dispute between the US and Mexico was settled through treaties. Was it just? That's a different question. But I'm not a lawyer, so I'm going to go with the ICJ on this one: Israel is illegally occupying Gaza. Your argument, in contrast, seems thin...

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 11:18 AM

Except the IDF withdrew from Gaza in 2005. An inconvenient fact which puts the lie to your assertion. Face it: you bought a misrepresentation of fact hook, line and sinker before it suited you to virtue signal - all at the expense of your critical thinking.

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 12:42 PM

Correction. I made no assertion. I repeated the court's finding that Israel is illegally occupying Gaza. I'm going to guess that the court is aware that Israel withdrew. Again. I'll go with the ICJ on this one. It seems you can't accept that. Why?

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 01:15 PM

IDF withdrew from Gaza, but Israel continued to control absolutely everything about it, refused a two-state solution, which is the whole point – stolen land from the majority, and putting them behind fences. Occupied. For 75 years. Gaza isn’t a free sovereign country, it’s a jail

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 01:56 PM

This is so ridiculous it hardly requires an answer - the whole world knows that the whole area was mixed, with a Muslim majority until a country was created for Jewish people only, and the locals who weren't Jewish were fenced off and controlled. That is Gaza. Occupied.

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 03:07 PM

Actual, Mr Fair - that assertion is also well documented to be completely untrue.

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 03:18 PM

As a matter of historical fact, the enclosure of Gaza only happened after they started unprovoked attacks on Israeli civilians. What else were the Israelis to do, I wonder? Allow the Palestinians free reign to murder their citizens? Its a laughable argument. Its not such a simple problem at all.

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 10:39 AM

Factually incorrect you say. So break each statement above that is not a fact, and provide evidence (not just what IDF says, evidence) to back it up. If you want, we can list the SC resolutions, and the 42 so far critical of Israel's treatment of the locals, that the US has vetoed.

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 10:40 AM

In rebuttal to Mr. Fair - check YOUR source. You will be surprised how many media reports of Israeli brutality over the years have been misrepresented. Some are outright lies. Not to say nasty things are not happening. Its war, so they definitely are.

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 10:53 AM

Don't be vague, list them, and your sources. What is factually incorrect above, based on? Don't just twist it back and make new claims without evidence, again.

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 11:21 AM

Well how about the report on the knife wielder - shot dead because he went on a rampage stabbing civilians. Reporter claimed he was unarmed - with the knife clearly in view on the footage. Then consider the accusations that IDF was using White Phosphorous (they do as a flare same as everyone)

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 11:23 AM

continued: that was proven a lie as well. Then you can consider the fact that Gazan broadcaster indoctrinates their OWN CHILDREN to hate Jews (not Israelis: Jews). A little published but well know fact. They also encourage them to be martyrs. CHILDREN. And you whine about the Israelis!?

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 11:41 AM

Oh yes, and of course the "Israeli" missile which hit a hospital in the beginning of the war? Do you remember everyone claiming it was Israeli? Proven a lie by the US and pretty much everyone else. The list is basically endless if you care to look. Its called critical thinking for a reason.

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 12:32 PM

Two isolated incidents nobody is questioning. But you make an unproven statemnt about indoctrination... Israel uses the same tactics: What train of thought makes Israelis hate the native people? Their CHILDREN are told they are chosen by a god, & everyone else hates Jews.

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 02:14 PM

HiddenName, you are appalled at indoctrination where kids are taught to hate other people. Read the comments from the Israeli mothers at the recent convention about settling Gaza? "Kill them all". They think it's land for Jews only, gifted by God, and surely tells her kids so.

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 12:35 PM

You've given an example of misreporting as though it undermines all the credible accounts of war crimes Israel is committing. But as Mr Fair reminds us, Israel is targeting journalists and preventing media access which would allow accurate reporting. Why do you think that is?

Malcolm McManus Nov 1, 2024, 01:17 PM

Take Iran for example. 80% of their media is state run. All media is heavily censored. Why do you think that is?

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 01:33 PM

@Malcom It seems you read the question but chose not to answer. Re your question, I'll guess that the media is controlled so that it controls the narrative. Is Iran being accused of genocide?

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 01:52 PM

Could be the same reason Malcolm. So you are confirming that Israel is controlling the narrative because they're doing things they don't want everyone to know about? The "most moral army" (as if any army is moral).

Malcolm McManus Nov 1, 2024, 02:29 PM

No good leaders escalating this war on either side. The average civillian on both sides dont want war.

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 02:44 PM

No - I think I gave a couple of proven samples of complete lies which were proven as such. Kind of like the death tolls reported on. You do know they (the Palestinians) have been proven to be lying about them and exaggerating the number and nature of deaths? That isnt even in question, by the way.

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 02:47 PM

(cont.) It is why good reporters always cite the toll as being according to them (because it cannot be verified). Meanwhile the media understates or ignores the efforts Israel goes to get the civilians clear. So what you have is a mix of the indoctrination and Hamas not letting them leave. Grow up.

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 03:22 PM

There are two sources we cannot trust 100% - IDF and Hamas-controlled things, so death toll, civilians being targeted, etc . Media always qualifies statements from both, by saying where they come from. Satellite images, foreign doctors, humanitarian agencies, dead journalists though..

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 03:26 PM

HiddenName, when all is said and done, and the dead are counted and verified... if I am wrong, I'll say sorry, I've made accusations that weren't 100% verified. If you are wrong, you have supported and justified genocide.

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 03:35 PM

The problem, Mr Fair, is that I dont believe you will. You are not thinking about the situation rationally, being so entangled in the reported horror. Statistically, there is no justification for the genocide accusation at all. the accusation is based on the worst sort of manipulation imaginable.

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 05:03 PM

Yes. Sorry. You gave three examples. One including a knife wielding guy. Why do you feel this is important in the context of a genocide?

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 03:08 PM

I'm not sure that these cases represent any serious misrepresentations as they've been corrected. Anyway, I can't see how it would be relevant given the innumerable documented cases of gross violations... Do you think that Israel will raise these as part of their defense?

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 03:37 PM

And the Israelis are investigating, with plans to PROSECUTE those responsible. Again, you only see one side of the story and make assumptions without even trying to see the truth. Its quite sad. Its war. Its ugly. Its not genocide.

JP K Nov 4, 2024, 10:28 AM

These cases you raise seem to be of some import. Do you think Israel will raise them as part of its defence? I'm guessing not because I don't think it's of relevance to their case. Why do you feel differently.

John P Nov 1, 2024, 07:52 PM

Not many reports of Israeli brutality have been misrepresented. A few certainly have. The very large majority have been verified. The alternative is to believe that every photo or video coming out of Gaza is a fabrication except those supplied by the IDF.

Ed Rybicki Nov 2, 2024, 09:34 AM

“Hidden Name” says everything. That, and the stubborn assertions that there is no genocide, only a “war”. About the second-most asymmetric “war” in the last hundred years, after the Warsaw Uprising and the systematic destruction of the city by the SS.

Roeland Bodart Nov 1, 2024, 05:39 PM

Difficult to comment on this site - but fully agree with you.

John P Nov 1, 2024, 07:46 PM

Russia gets criticized heavily as well, could it be because both Russia and Israel are carrying out war crimes on a daily basis or is it because they are good, innocent and kindly nations who are treated unfairly?

Gavin Hillyard Nov 2, 2024, 06:06 AM

Come on JP K - The stated objective of the Hamas, Hezbollah, and their ilk is the total annihilation of Israel. The October 7th attack was the last straw for Israel. They have decided to destroy Hamas for once and for all. Any reasonable person with a functioning brain can appreciate that.

John P Nov 2, 2024, 09:55 AM

As a "reasonable person with a functioning brain" you have of course done in depth research into this going back to the creation of Israel against the wishes of the Arab world all the way through to today. On this journey you would have visited the Nakba, illegal settlements, Gazan blockade etc.

John P Nov 2, 2024, 09:59 AM

Ran out of characters. In conclusion having looked at this history you will have hopefully picked up some understanding of why Israel and the Jews living there are seen by the Palestinian people as oppressors to fight against by any means available.

JP K Nov 4, 2024, 07:43 AM

Let's take it that Hamas is genocidal in intent if not ability. Does that give Israel the right to obliterate the civilian population of Gaza? Do experts calling out Israel's crimes not have a functioning brain?

Roeland Bodart Nov 1, 2024, 05:36 PM

You do not know what is genocide - that is the first problem.

John P Nov 1, 2024, 07:53 PM

Please give us your definition then

Roeland Bodart Nov 2, 2024, 05:41 PM

Genocide is where you purposely eradicate a population group by execution. Usually large amounts of people are involved - not just 43000 (including the terrorists). We're referring to hundreds of thousands just excecuted.....

JP K Nov 4, 2024, 07:44 AM

Why then are experts pointing to Irael committing genocide? Do you think that they might know something you don't?

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 08:06 PM

I'm no expert. But the source I quoted is. 75% of middle east experts out of 750 odd think Israel's actions constitute genocide or are genocidal in character. 16% say major war crimes. What source do you use?

Roeland Bodart Nov 1, 2024, 05:37 PM

Absolute ridiculous - you have no idea what is genocide...

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 08:09 PM

I think the special rapporteur knows what genocide is. She's written two reports documenting how there is evidence that Israel is committing genocide. Other rapporteurs agree. Why are you saying it's obviously not genocide when other produce evidence that it is?

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 11:08 AM

To the Israel apologists, tell us why you support them. Look deep in yourself. We support humanity, and where we see racism and discrimination by violence, we call it out. Give us a rational reason too why you support Israel and the IDF. Show us a reason that doesn't boil down to Us/Them (racism).

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 11:26 AM

Thats easy: I despise terrorists who indoctrinate their children to be martyrs. Who deliberately provoke attacks by incessantly attacking civilians. Who continually derail every sane attempt to bring an end to the idiocy which is this conflict. This is not about religion. The lying irks me as well.

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 12:31 PM

Could you define terrorism please? I don't think any parent wants their child to die. Why do you think Palestinians are different?

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 12:39 PM

The lying? Such as "Who continually derail every sane attempt to bring an end to the idiocy". So Israel's clear statement to carry on killing, regardless of hostages etc, prohibiting press to verify claims, conventions by ministers to settle Gaza, are lies too? Israel always seeks peace? No.

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 12:46 PM

That's an understandable reason to support a country's actions. However, what do you make of the credible reports that Israel is undertaking a genocide? That it is an apartheid state? That it is an occupying power? Your support only makes sense if you disregard all evidence of this...

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 02:52 PM

Trouble is that the reports are NOT credible. Consider what happened in Rwanda. More than 500,000 killed in 100 days. If the Israelis were indiscriminately killing civilians as the media suggest, instead of just victims of war how many dead hmm? Israelis have better weapons than Hutu as well.

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 03:26 PM

(1) What are your criteria for credibility? What are examples of credible sources? The definition of genocide says nothing about a rate. For example, how long did the Nazis take? Also, you'll note, they did not succeed. If 1m instead of 6m were killed would it still be a genocide?

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 03:38 PM

I think I prefer my facts to be verifiable. So no, I wont accept claims by either side without verifying them and trying to see the truth. Critical thinking remember? You may want to reconsider your positions - because you have bought a lie.

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 03:44 PM

Who said anythign about the rate? The Nazis concentrated the Jews and then began a whole sale slaughter. Rwanda was more of a "free range" incident, but in both cases the defining characteristic was the vast numbers killed. This conflict doesnt even feature on that scale.

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 05:09 PM

(1). You mentioned the rate: 500 000 killed in 100 days... Being a genocide, it's a process. The death toll will increase particularly in terms of slow non-violent deaths. How long did the holocaust take? And if 1m were killed would it still be a genocide or not?

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 05:11 PM

(2) anyway, maybe you missed it: what are your criteria for credibility? Can you provide some examples of credible sources?

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 03:30 PM

There are quite a few good pieces written (look in Forbes, for eg-but plenty of others) which give quite a different perspective on this ugliness. Truth is likely somewhere between that view and the mainstream. As usual sensationalist slant to the reporting skew everything. Emotional manipulation.

JP K Nov 4, 2024, 10:35 AM

First article I came across in Forbes: "The Human Costs of the Gaza War Are Even Greater Than You Think ... when indirect deaths are taken into account, the picture becomes even darker and more unconscionable." Can you give a specific author or article? I'd have thought it would be easy...

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 01:20 PM

Ever asked WHY civilians are targeted? Or WHY we take a certain viewpoint of the conflict? It definitely isn't religion you say, so what makes people so desperate as to risk their lives? It can't be "they just don't like our kind", not a reason to die. We decry inequality. Not Israel.

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 02:55 PM

Utter nonsense. And racist besides. Come now - be civil.

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 03:40 PM

What? You aren't answering the question, and say somehow my question is racist? One shouldn't drink and comment sir. Be civil says the man hating Islam. Answer my question - why is there so much resistance to what Israel does? Why?

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 03:56 PM

sorry - this attached to the wrong comment..... And beware: never in any comment did I mention Islam. Make an accusation like that again and I will ensure that you are blocked. Yes - its possible. I wont be maligned or have false accusations leveled at me.

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 04:56 PM

Answer the question - why? It's been asked many, many times. You and Agf simply ignore it. Why do you think Israel has so many enemies around it?

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 02:48 PM

Indoctrination is a terrible weapon. Ask the Nazis.

esther_michaels1@proton.me Nov 1, 2024, 04:08 PM

Indeed, teaching kids that they are chosen and have a right to displace the natives as G_d has granted the chosen this right... Have a look at what SA jewish schools teach and the level of brain-washing and guilting in Israel itself!

owenbradleykatz@gmail.com Nov 5, 2024, 08:22 PM

Not true at all. Your comment is inappropriate. SA Jewish schools teach Jewish studies and Hebrew along with every other subject. But most importantly what they teach is love, tolerance and respect for people. All people

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 05:14 PM

Do you mean believing that you're doing the world a favour saving everyone from an evil group? Yes. You might well ask the Zionists.

alastairmgf Nov 1, 2024, 11:46 AM

Why do you keep talking about racism? Muslims aren’t a race, they are a religion. “The peaceful religion”. The Iranians aren’t Arabs, they are Persians. Yet they are Muslims and very militant at that. If you are anti Iranian, are you racist? Mr Fair, you do tend to spout off at times.

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 12:27 PM

Islamaphobia/Antisemitism/Zionism, all forms of racism - hating another group of people, the entire group. That is racism you have both espoused. Us/Them. How about the real reason all this happens - the racism of Zionism that created an Israel for Jews where Muslims were in the majority? Racism

esther_michaels1@proton.me Nov 1, 2024, 02:28 PM

Mr Fair I agree with Agf about this. It is therefore absolutely just and correct to say that Israelis should return to their European homes and return the stolen land to the Palestinians. To be anti-colonial or against land theft is not the same as being anti-Semitic.

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 03:40 PM

I really hope you were trying to be ironic there, or just didnt think through the full implications of your statement?

Gavin Hillyard Nov 2, 2024, 06:23 AM

So we Saffers must go back to Europe, Caucasian Americans back to Ireland, Europe and the Balkans, the Argentinians to Spain, the Brazilians to Portugal, the Australians and New Zealanders back to Scotland and England. If we go back far enough all mankind should return to Africa. Utter drivel Esther

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 12:53 PM

I don't think you'll find any satisfying answer and suspect that underpinning it all is just racism. . The more sober commenters are quiet - after 1 year it's hard to explain away all the atrocities without disregarding reality.

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 01:24 PM

Correct JP, I think the angry people who blindly support a country for only one group of people, and hate those who have been wronged by it, have talked themselves into enough of a corner to show their true colours.

Just another Comment Nov 1, 2024, 11:40 AM

On 28 June 1914, an extremist took it too far by assassinating one man who was visiting Serbia. This resulted in the deaths of 11 million people through the declaration of war. Israel declared war when Hamas took it too far. War takes no prisoners. But warmongers on both sides don't ever care.

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 11:44 AM

Completely true statement.

esther_michaels1@proton.me Nov 1, 2024, 02:46 PM

Also true Israel took it too far with years of phosphorus bombing, abductions of Palestinians (men, women & children). A uniform does not make it legit no more than the SS arrests & detentions. Ignore the Palestinian baby burnt alive in 2015, as some are not allowed the same right to defense.

John P Nov 1, 2024, 07:58 PM

The first world war was far more complicated than that. Read the full history not just the grade 5 text book.

Gavin Hillyard Nov 2, 2024, 06:25 AM

It was a chain reaction of alliances that brought war to Europe, precipitated by the Duke's assassination. No need to be rude John. John Smythe's statement factually correct.

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 11:45 AM

DM comment function seems to be a bit broken :)

Roeland Bodart Nov 1, 2024, 05:29 PM

It seems very pro -Palestinian? I do not understand this radical way of thought....

JP K Nov 1, 2024, 08:12 PM

Well, what material have you engaged with on the topic? Seriously. If you're going to tell people they don't know what they're talking about, reveal your sources.

Roeland Bodart Nov 2, 2024, 05:44 PM

My sources are based on historical facts before the internet got swooped by pro=Palestinian propaganda.....

JP K Nov 4, 2024, 07:49 AM

Are you suggesting the "internet" has been swooped by pro-palestinian propaganda? Like the UN, human rights organisations etc? What's are your sources? Read any books? Any reports?

John P Nov 2, 2024, 10:09 AM

Yes it does, many comments are flagged as duplicates and mentioning the US and Israel in the same sentence often results in a rejected comment. It seems that many commentators reject comments simply because they disagree with their point of view.

alastairmgf Nov 1, 2024, 12:00 PM

Re the hospital bomb, the BBC immediately reported Israel had dropped a bomb on the hospital which had killed 471 people. 1 It wasn’t an Israeli bomb it was a misfired Islamic Jihad rocket. 2 It hit the car park not the hospital. 3 It killed 100 not 471 people. Now that is misinformation.

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 12:36 PM

Isolated incident nobody is arguing. You are correct. It hardly has the gravity of the reasons for the whole destruction of Palestinians being disputed, or if they are or not. You all keep going on about rockets etc. And never give a reason why you think they happen. STOLEN LAND & FREEDOM

esther_michaels1@proton.me Nov 1, 2024, 02:39 PM

Forensic Architecture, London research agency has proven the 17/10/23 explostion of al-Ahli Hospital the missile was launched from outside Gaza, near known Israeli missile launch site that is part of its ‘Iron Dome’ air defence system.

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 02:54 PM

Not at all isolated. Again - you didn't even look did you? Thats why its called critical thinking, and not virtue signalling. You should try it - the latter makes you look a bit off and unreasonable.

Mr. Fair Nov 1, 2024, 03:30 PM

One bomb source was initially misreported, then corrected. Nobody is arguing against that. But back up your big claims. There have been thousands of bombs in Gaza from Israel. Critical thinking? From someone who blindly supports an army who refuses independent verification where they kill?

esther_michaels1@proton.me Nov 1, 2024, 03:43 PM

When Israel's Daniel Hagari (non-existent beheaded babies, mass rapes) makes claims, it is usually untrue or at least a horror that has been perpetrated against the victim. No one was allowed on site to investigate and BBC, HRW, CNN accepted Israeli reports of the event.

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 04:01 PM

Well now thats a complete lie. Who told you that? Much of the atrocities were filmed by their perpetrators and POSTED to social media. These are facts disputed by no one, so why are you doing so?

Hidden Name Nov 1, 2024, 04:50 PM

Correction - the babies thing was BS - but most of the other atrocities were proven to be quite true....

John P Nov 2, 2024, 10:13 AM

Yes that turned out to be misinformation. That does not mean that all the claims of atrocities and war crimes are also misinformation. Perhaps if Israel allowed independent reporters into Gaza we would be getting more accurate information?

esther_michaels1@proton.me Nov 2, 2024, 06:35 PM

Forensic Architecture, London research agency showed the 17/10/23 explosion of al-Ahli Hospital was from missile launched outside Gaza, near known Israeli missile launch site that is part of its ‘Iron Dome’ system.

owenbradleykatz@gmail.com Nov 5, 2024, 08:38 PM

You mean the rocket explosion in the car park killing less than 50 people? The same one Hamas reported as hitting hospital and killing 500 people? And it’s been verified in many press reports as coming from a misfired Islamic jihad rocket aimed at Israel? What’s next ? Hannibal directive ?

Sheila Vrahimis Nov 3, 2024, 03:08 PM

i still beg the question, which no one answers, why didn't hamas, whilst building its underground network, not incorporate shelters for children and civilians? hamas KNEW israel would retaliate after oct 7. why did hamas leave the citizens to their own fate? to be killed? was this moral?

John P Nov 4, 2024, 09:24 AM

Israel is destroying the underground network anyway so would it have even made a difference?

owenbradleykatz@gmail.com Nov 5, 2024, 08:40 PM

Yes it would have saved countless lives, instead of a metro of tunnels they could have built bomb shelters for citizens.